Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: John Jaeckel: Top 10 Players, Now And All-Time
Author Message
andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:29 PM ET
Some of it is also Coaches deployment. I mean Crosby can probably kill penalties just fine if placed in the position but why waste his time when he can use those minutes to score goals?
- PaskySens


Some, yes...but to be an "elite" penalty killer takes a certain mindset and work ethic. I believe Crosby has the work ethic, but not necessarily the mindset.
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:32 PM ET
Here's an interesting question though: how many elite players are also elite penalty killers? Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews, Hossa, Datsyuk, Zetterberg... There are more that aren't.
- andru2797


First of all what is your definition of elite? I would not call Bergeron or Hossa at this point Elite. Some teams choose not to use star players in PK roles due to wear and tear on the player. I know what your saying in how that intangible holds weight against a one dimensional player but Crosby is not one dimensional.
moylander
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:33 PM ET
Some, yes...but to be an "elite" penalty killer takes a certain mindset and work ethic. I believe Crosby has the work ethic, but not necessarily the mindset.
- andru2797


So crosby plays 21 minutes a game... Toews 20... and here we are debating how good these players are based on 1 minute of penalty killing? something isn't right here.
Tanuki
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.27.2010

Jul 29 @ 2:34 PM ET
Another thing to consider re: Orr/Gretzky

Orr put up insane numbers as a defenseman (and a GREAT defensive defenseman) in an era playing against a much less diluted talent pool. He had to face Hull/Mikita, Beliveau, Howe, guys like that night after night.

- John Jaeckel


Yes, Gretkzy was an amazing player and he changed the game. How much of his greatness had to do with playing on such a loaded Edmonton team? He still would have been legendary. Do you remember when the league eliminated 4 on 4s for offsetting minors because the Oilers were so dominant?
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: YYZ
Joined: 06.26.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:34 PM ET
He would be #1
- Jordy8

#2, after Orr.
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:36 PM ET
Some, yes...but to be an "elite" penalty killer takes a certain mindset and work ethic. I believe Crosby has the work ethic, but not necessarily the mindset.
- andru2797


What? People do realize Crosby is a 100 point per year player that take more physical abuse from other teams...trust me I know the Flyers attack him like he owes them something. He plays against the other teams best defence and strongest defensive players and still produces... Mindset
andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:36 PM ET
First of all what is your definition of elite? I would not call Bergeron or Hossa at this point Elite. Some teams choose not to use star players in PK roles due to wear and tear on the player. I know what your saying in how that intangible holds weight against a one dimensional player but Crosby is not one dimensional.
- RobFlyers#1


Fair enough... Let me rephrase: How many of the top 30-40 forwards in the league are elite penalty killers, meaning they are too good NOT to use on the PK, regardless of who else is on the team.
carcus
St Louis Blues
Location: #Winnington
Joined: 02.12.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:36 PM ET
Why, because that play took 4 seconds to complete?
- paulr

andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:38 PM ET
What? People do realize Crosby is a 100 point per year player that take more physical abuse from other teams...trust me I know the Flyers attack him like he owes them something. He plays against the other teams best defence and strongest defensive players and still produces... Mindset
- RobFlyers#1


I was talking about a PENALTY KILLING mindset. That includes blocking shots, dogging the puck, engaging in board battles an having active stick.
andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:39 PM ET
So crosby plays 21 minutes a game... Toews 20... and here we are debating how good these players are based on 1 minute of penalty killing? something isn't right here.
- moylander


Not at all...You'll notice (if you go back and read) that I in fact chose Crosby as #1. I was merely stating that to kill penalties, a player must be prepared to do certain things to be succesful.
moylander
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:41 PM ET
Not at all...You'll notice (if you go back and read) that I in fact chose Crosby as #1. I was merely stating that to kill penalties, a player must be prepared to do certain things to be succesful.
- andru2797


not necessarily directed at you
GoLeafsGo67
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 07.12.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:43 PM ET
top ten D

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Subban
OEL
McDonagh
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:46 PM ET
I was talking about a PENALTY KILLING mindset. That includes blocking shots, dogging the puck, engaging in board battles an having active stick.
- andru2797


Well if I'm the penguins I don't want my best players blocking shots if it's not necessary which is why most teams choose to sign good defensive players to do that so there offensive players don't have to risk the injuries.
l3ig_l2ecl
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Unfortunately, QC
Joined: 07.01.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:48 PM ET
Not at all...You'll notice (if you go back and read) that I in fact chose Crosby as #1. I was merely stating that to kill penalties, a player must be prepared to do certain things to be succesful.
- andru2797


So by all this nonsense of Toews being a better overall player than Crosby because of his two-way play, leadership, and amazing PK skills. IMO, Bergeron is > Toews.

I mean Bergeron has amazing PK skills, better faceoff % than both of them. As for leadership, he's actually led his team to a president trophy AND He's got a better +-

just saying...
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:48 PM ET
Fair enough... Let me rephrase: How many of the top 30-40 forwards in the league are elite penalty killers, meaning they are too good NOT to use on the PK, regardless of who else is on the team.
- andru2797


I get what your saying and that's why Toews would rank in the top 3 just not number 1
carcus
St Louis Blues
Location: #Winnington
Joined: 02.12.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:48 PM ET
I was talking about a PENALTY KILLING mindset. That includes blocking shots, dogging the puck, engaging in board battles an having active stick.
- andru2797

hahaha, my favorite hockey term.

carcus
St Louis Blues
Location: #Winnington
Joined: 02.12.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:51 PM ET
So by all this nonsense of Toews being a better overall player than Crosby because of his two-way play, leadership, and amazing PK skills. IMO, Bergeron is > Toews.

I mean Bergeron has amazing PK skills, better faceoff % than both of them. As for leadership, he's actually led his team to a president trophy AND He's got a better +-

just saying...

- l3ig_l2ecl


Toews has done this as well.

And Toews career +/- is +141
Bergeron career +/- is +108
l3ig_l2ecl
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Unfortunately, QC
Joined: 07.01.2009

Jul 29 @ 2:53 PM ET
Toews has done this as well.
- carcus


We're talking about current best NHL players, meaning this year/last season.

Anyway, congrats on Toews being a penalty killer, but considering the team was 17th in the league at killing penalties, I don't think it should be brought up as being that great.

Edit: Pittsburg was 5th without using Crosby. Obviously they figured something out that Joel hasn't.
andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 2:57 PM ET
Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!
l3ig_l2ecl
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Unfortunately, QC
Joined: 07.01.2009

Jul 29 @ 3:00 PM ET
Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!

- andru2797


He did say "Tomorrow, I'm doing goalies" but yes, that list is very accurate, especially the top 5. Might be differently placed, but they are undisputed.
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 29 @ 3:01 PM ET
We're talking about current best NHL players, meaning this year/last season.

Anyway, congrats on Toews being a penalty killer, but considering the team was 17th in the league at killing penalties, I don't think it should be brought up as being that great.

Edit: Pittsburg was 5th without using Crosby. Obviously they figured something out that Joel hasn't.

- l3ig_l2ecl


Bravo Bravo well said
andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 3:02 PM ET
He did say "Tomorrow, I'm doing goalies" but yes, that list is very accurate, especially the top 5. Might be differently placed, but they are undisputed.
- l3ig_l2ecl


Right...forgot about that.
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 29 @ 3:03 PM ET
Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!

- andru2797


Don't agree with Schneider being on this list.
GoLeafsGo67
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 07.12.2011

Jul 29 @ 3:06 PM ET
Just so they don't feel left out...

My top 10 goalies (this was by far the toughest list outside #1):
1. Lundqvist - The most consistently great goalie in the league, year after year.
2. Quick - Prone a bad goal here & there, but hard to argue with results (2 Cups, Conn Smythe).
3. Price - Has the ability to carry a team, almost by himself.
4. Rinne - One of few modern-day goalies who can get in shooters' heads when he's on.
5. Rask - Ranking suffers behind great defensive team. Can he carry a team?
6. Bishop - Simply a monster in net. Was Hart-worthy this past season.
7. Bobrovsky - Has been a workhorse and the MVP of Jackets last 2 seasons.
8. Smith - On some nights, can appear unbeatable. Excellent puck handler.
9. Crawford - Can be leaky, but can be great when he finds his groove. Has proven to be mentally tough.
10. Schneider - Has yet to take that next step, but the talent is there.

Honorable mention: Luongo - Fresh start will do him good, plus has the best twitter account in hockey!

- andru2797


undqvist
Rask
Quick
Rinne (healthy)
Price
Bishop
Varlamov
miller
Bobrovsky
Smith, would like to say Bernier but there might be some bias behind that
andru2797
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Laval, QC
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jul 29 @ 3:07 PM ET
Don't agree with Schneider being on this list.
- RobFlyers#1


To be honest I debated between him, Mason and Niemi. Schneider has posted better stats more consistently, so I went with him.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27  Next