you basically have the following guys guaranteed to be on the NHL roster
turris, ryan, macarthur, zibby, chiasson, michalek, smith, neil, condra, legwand
that leaves 2-3 spots for stone, greening, lazar, hoffman
so, unless someone is traded, i can't see how lazar makes the team.
- sensarmy_11

I know this will be misinterpreted by some as being anti-Stone, but the reality is that if they have 2-3 spots for Stone, Greening, Lazar, and Hoffman, and there's a clearly defined consequence to removing any of Greening, Lazar, and Hoffman, then this brings us around to the point that I've been trying to make for the past while. Even if Stone is as good or even marginally better than Lazar or Hoffman, it's quite possible that the fact that he's a natural RW best suited to a scoring line on a team with far too many RW coming to camp, and the fact that he's the only player in that equation that can be put in the AHL with no consequence, could well mean that he becomes the odd-man out. The NHL is not always a pure meritocracy, and it isn't always fair to all players. Obviously this logic applies to Hoffman and Lazar just as much as it does to Stone... but it most certainly does apply to Stone as well.

It's not too hard to be better than Neil and Greening, let's be honest. Hoffman is a good little player, but nothing special. He doesn't appear to have game breaking offensive ability and his defensive play is not great. He's been projected to make this team for a couple of years now and just never really has cracked it. He got a chance last season, but certainly didn't prove to anyone he is an NHL mainstay. I think he like Pag, is a victim of the Sens goggles. They seem better than they actually are.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

It's hilarious to me to watch you drool over Puempel and Stone and disparage Hoffman in the same breath, when Hoffman has shown FAR more gamebreaking offensive ability, speed, and statistical superiority to either guy.

Hoffman led the B-sens in scoring the past two years, at the ages of 23 and 24. Not exactly a seasoned vet. He dominated in fact, with 30 goals and 37 assists in 51 games, the second highest point per game average in B-sens history behind only Jason Spezza.

Stone hasn't done anything of the sort yet, and Puempel hasn't learned how to do much else besides shoot.

Draft position isn't everything, Gord.

These are the best lines.
Mac-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Zibanejad-Stone
Hoffman-Legwand-Chiasson
Greening/Lazar-Smith-Condra
Neil

Ideally they trade away Greening and let Lazar get some ice time.
- TheCalSen

nice... if Lazar plays god I hope its not with neil and smith.

would like to see him RW to Zibanejad + Michalek (or legwand)

It's hilarious to me to watch you drool over Puempel and Stone and disparage Hoffman in the same breath, when Hoffman has shown FAR more gamebreaking offensive ability, speed, and statistical superiority to either guy.

Draft position isn't everything, Gord.
- TommyDeVito

When was I drooling over Puemple? I am interested to see how he performs this training camp. I was drooling when we drafted him, but have since soured. If he is going to be an NHLer, I think he has to make some noise this year.

I'm excited to see Stone play full time. I think he has great offensive instincts to a top 6 player at the NHL level.

As for draft positioning Stone - 178th overall in 2010, Hoffman - 130th overall in 2009.

I'm don't mean to dump on Hoffman. I think he's a good little player. We've seen him play 29 NHL games and rack up 6 whole points. Not exactly blowing things out of the water at the NHL level. I don't see him as a lock for this team, but has the advantage with the new contract.

It's hilarious to me to watch you drool over Puempel and Stone and disparage Hoffman in the same breath, when Hoffman has shown FAR more gamebreaking offensive ability, speed, and statistical superiority to either guy.
- TommyDeVito

The other interesting thing about Hoffman is that his development follows a pattern of requiring time and developing confidence. In junior, he had to not only change teams but change leagues to find his foothold (which is why he was available in the 5th round) - and in the AHL he wound up being demoted to the ECHL just weeks after getting his first professional opportunity. In both cases what followed was remarkable - becoming assistant captain of his team and named the top player in the QMJHL in his last season in junior, and then becoming captain of his team and among the top scorers in the AHL last year... and even the all-star game MVP. As such, there's every reason to at least give him a decent chance to see if he can adapt his game and skating ability to the NHL level, because his track record suggests it's potentially well worth the wait.

... if Lazar plays ......)
- AlfieisKing

.... it will be for nine games before being sent back to junior.

He is being talked about being the captain for Team Canada and hopefully will be sent back after a taste of the NHL.

Question ..... what are the rules on bringing him back in January???? Is it simply, he can, but once he reaches ten games he stays???

I'd be OK with that if that was the case. I'd just hate to rush a guy that young

I'm don't mean to dump on Hoffman. I think he's a good little player. We've seen him play 29 NHL games and rack up 6 whole points. Not exactly blowing things out of the water at the NHL level. I don't see him as a lock for this team, but has the advantage with the new contract.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Yes, apparently the standard benchmark for being a lock in the NHL is 9pts in 25 games.

.... it will be for nine games before being sent back to junior.

He is being talked about being the captain for Team Canada and hopefully will be sent back after a taste of the NHL.

Question ..... what are the rules on bringing him back in January???? Is it simply, he can, but once he reaches ten games he stays???

I'd be OK with that if that was the case. I'd just hate to rush a guy that young
- GadesnSens

once he reaches 10 games, his ELC kicks in and you waste 1 year of it. you don't HAVE to keep him up, but his 1st year starts.

Yes, apparently the standard benchmark for being a lock in the NHL is 9pts in 25 games.
- khawk

so by this logic, there is no prospect ever, anywhere, who's a lock to make an NHL roster.

i mean, none of them have pts in the NHL.

come on man, these are young kids, you can't just look at their points and say "okay, they aren't performing, send them down".

i don't think anyone is saying these guys are locks......i certainly didn't anyways.....but based on how they looked last year (overall, not just points), the chances of them making the team are very good.

Yes, apparently the standard benchmark for being a lock in the NHL is 9pts in 25 games.
- khawk

Reading the post about Hoffman with phrases like "Hoffman has shown FAR more gamebreaking offensive ability, speed, and statistical superiority to either guy." I felt the need to bring it back down to earth. Your previous post was well written in that at every level he has needed time to get comfortable. Maybe that needs to be the case in the NHL as well. Easier said than done though in the toughest league in the world. I personally don't see him becoming a top 6 NHL forward. I do see that potential in Stone's game. To me, they are both at pretty much the same level with Stone being a little younger. Let's not ignore the success Stone has had in the AHL in less games played. However, it's all about what you can do at the NHL level. Corey Locke was awesome in the AHL as well and look at how that turned out.

Yes, apparently the standard benchmark for being a lock in the NHL is 9pts in 25 games.
- khawk

retiring a jersey is 20 Points in 20 Games

.... it will be for nine games before being sent back to junior.

He is being talked about being the captain for Team Canada and hopefully will be sent back after a taste of the NHL.

Question ..... what are the rules on bringing him back in January???? Is it simply, he can, but once he reaches ten games he stays???

I'd be OK with that if that was the case. I'd just hate to rush a guy that young
- GadesnSens

I think Lazar is too good to pass him up. Ottawa is young and has tons of competition going on but he could get quality minutes playing on this team. I like the write up Sensshot. Could you imagine what the team looks like with shipping out Greening (along with a prospect and a Dman) for C.Stewart

What would forward combos look like?

so by this logic, there is no prospect ever, anywhere, who's a lock to make an NHL roster.
i mean, none of them have pts in the NHL.
come on man, these are young kids, you can't just look at their points and say "okay, they aren't performing, send them down".
i don't think anyone is saying these guys are locks......i certainly didn't anyways.....but based on how they looked last year (overall, not just points), the chances of them making the team are very good.
- sensarmy_11

Actually, yes for the most part even good prospects on bad teams are generally not assured of making an NHL roster, particularly when they're not the only good prospect vying for the same roster spot, and the team is already loaded with players on one-way contracts. Obviously players that are top-5 picks tend to be given prime opportunities, but at the same time go ask Kyle Turris or Jonathan Drouin if being a top-3 pick assured them of anything with their respective teams the following year. And no offense, but earlier today you claimed that Stone should ideally be playing on the top line with Turris in place of Ryan, and that a trade would be necessary for both Stone and Lazar to make the roster... if you don't believe he's a lock, you're certainly formulating strong opinions around his presence in the lineup. It's great that Stone stepped in last year and looked like he belonged - but the reality is that doesn't mean a thing now that Ryan's not hurt anymore, and Chiasson and Lazar are direct competition for his roster spot.

Also, did you seriously just suggest that you can't send a young player down to the minors for not performing? I'm sure Mika Zibanejad, Stephane DaCosta, and Jean-Gabriel Pageau would have some contrary thoughts about what the team "can" and "can't" do with young players on two-way contracts... even ones who have played in the NHL for long stretches of games.

Again; any team in the NHL better...

Under 25

C Kyle Turris, D Erik Karlsson, D Patrick Weircioch, D Jared Cowen
G Robin Lehner, C Mika Zibanejad, RW Alex Chaisson, RW Mark Stone
C/RW Curtis Lazar, LW Matt Pumepel, D Cody Ceci, LW Mike Hoffman

Actually, yes for the most part even good prospects on bad teams are generally not assured of making an NHL roster, particularly when they're not the only good prospect vying for the same roster spot, and the team is already loaded with players on one-way contracts. Obviously players that are top-5 picks tend to be given prime opportunities, but at the same time go ask Kyle Turris or Jonathan Drouin if being a top-3 pick assured them of anything with their respective teams the following year. And no offense, but earlier today you claimed that Stone should ideally be playing on the top line with Turris in place of Ryan, and that a trade would be necessary for both Stone and Lazar to make the roster... if you don't believe he's a lock, you're certainly formulating strong opinions around his presence in the lineup. It's great that Stone stepped in last year and looked like he belonged - but the reality is that doesn't mean a thing now that Ryan's not hurt anymore, and Chiasson and Lazar are direct competition for his roster spot.

Also, did you seriously just suggest that you can't send a young player down to the minors for not performing? I'm sure Mika Zibanejad, Stephane DaCosta, and Jean-Gabriel Pageau would have some contrary thoughts about what the team "can" and "can't" do with young players on two-way contracts... even ones who have played in the NHL for long stretches of games.
- khawk

First - I don't say stone was a lock, but if he is on the roster, that is wherei think he'd be most effective.....he looked very good on that line last year.

Second - I wasn't suggesting you can't someone down for not performing........I was suggesting that you can't base someone's performance ONLY on points......especially when they're so young. I'm much more impressed with a young guy who puts up 9pts in 25 games or whatever, and plays a real good overall game.....then a guy who puts up 16-17 pts, but who's game still looks like it's full of holes

Actually, yes for the most part even good prospects on bad teams are generally not assured of making an NHL roster, particularly when they're not the only good prospect vying for the same roster spot, and the team is already loaded with players on one-way contracts. Obviously players that are top-5 picks tend to be given prime opportunities, but at the same time go ask Kyle Turris or Jonathan Drouin if being a top-3 pick assured them of anything with their respective teams the following year. And no offense, but earlier today you claimed that Stone should ideally be playing on the top line with Turris in place of Ryan, and that a trade would be necessary for both Stone and Lazar to make the roster... if you don't believe he's a lock, you're certainly formulating strong opinions around his presence in the lineup. It's great that Stone stepped in last year and looked like he belonged - but the reality is that doesn't mean a thing now that Ryan's not hurt anymore, and Chiasson and Lazar are direct competition for his roster spot.

Also, did you seriously just suggest that you can't send a young player down to the minors for not performing? I'm sure Mika Zibanejad, Stephane DaCosta, and Jean-Gabriel Pageau would have some contrary thoughts about what the team "can" and "can't" do with young players on two-way contracts... even ones who have played in the NHL for long stretches of games.
- khawk

Yes, even Wayne Gretzky had to skate in pre-season games. We get it, no player is guaranteed anything until it's guaranteed and then it's still not guaranteed like Redden, Cheechoo, even healthy players like Gionta etc.

Stone is on the opening day roster! Take this to the bank. He will play RW on with one of Legwand, Turris or Zibby - and the way the coach shuffles his lines this will happen all in the same game.

First - I don't say stone was a lock, but if he is on the roster, that is wherei think he'd be most effective.....he looked very good on that line last year.
Second - I wasn't suggesting you can't someone down for not performing........I was suggesting that you can't base someone's performance ONLY on points......especially when they're so young. I'm much more impressed with a young guy who puts up 9pts in 25 games or whatever, and plays a real good overall game.....then a guy who puts up 16-17 pts, but who's game still looks like it's full of holes
- sensarmy_11

My question is what makes you think that the team cares this much about where Mark Stone would be most effective? Do you really think that this would override their interest in where guys like Bobby Ryan, Kyle Turris, or Milan Michalek would be most effective? The team's top line is more than just a development opportunity for a rookie who might not even make the roster - it's where you typically find the team's best players, and the ones you're going to rely on to win you hockey games all year long. Plus, even if Stone did find himself in a scoring line role out of training camp, he's absolutely going to have to produce to hold on to it - because regardless of what impresses you, if a scoring line player isn't producing then you have to make whatever changes are necessary to improve on that. Playing a "real good overall game" is for 3rd and 4th line players, which is why I don't think it's even remotely clear-cut which of Stone or Lazar has an advantage in terms of such a role.

My question is what makes you think that the team cares this much about where Mark Stone would be most effective? Do you really think that this would override their interest in where guys like Bobby Ryan, Kyle Turris, or Milan Michalek would be most effective? The team's top line is more than just a development opportunity for a rookie who might not even make the roster - it's where you typically find the team's best players, and the ones you're going to rely on to win you hockey games all year long. Plus, even if Stone did find himself in a scoring line role out of training camp, he's absolutely going to have to produce to hold on to it - because regardless of what impresses you, if a scoring line player isn't producing then you have to make whatever changes are necessary to improve on that. Playing a "real good overall game" is for 3rd and 4th line players, which is why I don't think it's even remotely clear-cut which of Stone or Lazar has an advantage in terms of such a role.
- khawk

Because they want to win? Is this a serious question?

Because they want to win? Is this a serious question?
- tuna99

Clearly, this wouldn't be an issue if Charlie Sheen was the assistant coach.

Because they want to win? Is this a serious question?
- tuna99

Might want to read the second line of what you're quoting.

By the way was going to post this earlier...

how many NHL teams compare to the Sens when it comes to players Under 25 (Born Aug 1st 89 and after). Check out this list:

Kyle Turris, Erik Karlsson, Patrick Weircioch, Jared Cowen, Robin Lehner, Mika Zibanejad, Alex Chaisson, Mark Stone, Curtis Lazar, Matt Pumepel, JG Pageau, Cody Ceci

Tampa, NY Islanders, Buffalo, Edmonton.... anyone else?
- AlfieisKing

Probably a few others. Depends how highly you think of Stone, Pageu, and Cowen really..

Yes, even Wayne Gretzky had to skate in pre-season games. We get it, no player is guaranteed anything until it's guaranteed and then it's still not guaranteed like Redden, Cheechoo, even healthy players like Gionta etc.

Stone is on the opening day roster! Take this to the bank. He will play RW on with one of Legwand, Turris or Zibby - and the way the coach shuffles his lines this will happen all in the same game.
- tuna99

Stone is a gem. Such a steal @ the 6th round.

Probably a few others. Depends how highly you think of Stone, Pageu, and Cowen really..
- ClarksonDavid

no.

No more than maybe 3 teams have players better than that. Look closely at the names other than the ones you mentioned

no.

No more than maybe 3 teams have players better than that. Look closely at the names other than the ones you mentioned
- AlfieisKing

Aside from Karlsson, and turris who is a good second line center. A lot of question marks no?

Aside from Karlsson, and turris who is a good second line center. A lot of question marks no?
- ClarksonDavid

Zibanejad and Lehner are potential impact players, Ceci looks like he will be a solid 2nd pairing defenceman, and Chiasson had a promising rookie season... but Cowen and Wiercioch both took a step back last year, and everyone else on that list are unproven prospects, two of which haven't even played a game in the NHL.

In general, I'd suggest that the Senators have an exceptionally deep prospect system, but have few exceptional prospects. The former can help an average team become good, but the latter is what makes a good team great. Also, there's no way to develop all of those prospects concurrently, so for every player that makes it they may bleed one or two others with little to show for it.