Stroke had identifiable reparable cause. He may have future injuries, but not from a hole in his heart that is repaired. That doesn't bother me as much as cost, although maybe you get a discount because people are afraid of what they don't understand.
- bodiva88

I understand, and still fear it.

The man had a septal defect, which is obviously a heart defect. He had a stroke and heart surgery.

This man is a professional athlete that plays a physically gruelling game 4 nights each week.

So, let's talk about the stroke. A stroke is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. In Letang's case, blood was seeping into his heart's right ventricle from his left ventricle, via this hole. That means blood was bypassing his lungs, since deoxygenated blood is pumped into the lungs for oxygenation by the right ventricle, then flows back into the left atrium/ventricle to be pumped into the body. This hole meant some blood was bypassing this route. Oxygenated blood was being mixed with deoxygenated blood in his left ventricle, essentially diluting the oxygen concentration in the blood being pumped into the body. Eventually it reached that breaking point, and his brain suffered from apoxia (lack of oxygen). This manifests itself as a stroke.

A person "has a stroke" because of apoxia in the brain. That means brain cells die. That has lasting effects, and makes you more prone to future stroke. You never know. That hole could open up again. The man plays a gruelling game that is insanely hard on the heart.

Moreover, hidden damage to his heart caused by his condition could be present, such as the death of cardiac cells due to apoxia. On the same token, his heart surgery may have also weakened or compromised cardiac muscle.

So yeah. I'll stay away from him.

Didn't he play some wing at the WJC too?
- PhillySportsGuy

I am not 100% but I believe he did

I think so too. I agree with Jmatch, in that, it might be a little difficult in the beginning of the season.

Many of us believed we could move Mez as just a straight salary dump at the beginning of the year. Many of us thought we could move VL while taking on very little or no salary. Most of us thought we could move Hartnell without taking on much salary or paying any of his salary.

I dont know what offers Homer/Hexy got, but I think it's safe to say, many on here have overvalued our own players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Injury issues factored in with Meszaros and Lecavalier. If Meszaros was a healthy player without the injury history, he could've been easily moved. I think many on here undervalue our own players.

I understand, and still fear it.

The man had a septal defect, which is obviously a heart defect. He had a stroke and heart surgery.

This man is a professional athlete that plays a physically gruelling game 4 nights each week.

So, let's talk about the stroke. A stroke is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. In Letang's case, blood was seeping into his heart's right ventricle from his left ventricle, via this hole. That means blood was bypassing his lungs, since deoxygenated blood is pumped into the lungs for oxygenation by the right ventricle, then flows back into the left atrium/ventricle to be pumped into the body. This hole meant some blood was bypassing this route. Oxygenated blood was being mixed with deoxygenated blood in his left ventricle, essentially diluting the oxygen concentration in the blood being pumped into the body. Eventually it reached that breaking point, and his brain suffered from apoxia (lack of oxygen). This manifests itself as a stroke.

A person "has a stroke" because of apoxia in the brain. That means brain cells die. That has lasting effects, and makes you more prone to future stroke. You never know. That hole could open up again. The man plays a gruelling game that is insanely hard on the heart.

Moreover, hidden damage to his heart caused by his condition could be present, such as the death of cardiac cells due to apoxia. On the same token, his heart surgery may have also weakened or compromised cardiac muscle.

So yeah. I'll stay away from him.
- Giroux_Is_God

Obviously a player like that would have to undergo extensive medical testing to see if there is any of that damage. But I don't know anybody who can properly assess a patient from afar. If he's deemed healthy, with no long term damage or risk. I'd jump at the chance to add a player like Letang.

Obviously a player like that would have to undergo extensive medical testing to see if there is any of that damage. But I don't know anybody who can properly assess a patient from afar. If he's deemed healthy, with no long term damage or risk. I'd jump at the chance to add a player like Letang.
- MJL

I'm not deeming him healthy or not ready to play. I'm using the facts of his condition, and logically coming to a conclusion. There is a risk here, deemed healthy or not.

I'm not deeming him healthy or not ready to play. I'm using the facts of his condition, and logically coming to a conclusion. There is a risk here, deemed healthy or not.
- Giroux_Is_God

That's my issue. We've seen athletes deemed healthy drop dead or nearly die of heart conditions, and I'm not willing to take that risk with such an expensive asset.

I'm not deeming him healthy or not ready to play. I'm using the facts of his condition, and logically coming to a conclusion. There is a risk here, deemed healthy or not.
- Giroux_Is_God

I don't see how anyone medically trained or not, could know all the facts of his condition just based on what is written. It has to involve some speculation. Someone like you, who obviously has some medical knowledge can make some general statements about strokes and their causes. But I don't think anyone without direct access to the player or his examination records can know the full extent of his diagnosis or future prognosis.

That's my issue. We've seen athletes deemed healthy drop dead or nearly die of heart conditions, and I'm not willing to take that risk with such an expensive asset.
- Jsaquella

serious question - if you sign an over 35 contract and the player dies, does his cap hit remain?

I don't see how anyone medically trained or not, could know all the facts of his condition just based on what is written. It has to involve some speculation. Someone like you, who obviously has some medical knowledge can make some general statements about strokes and their causes. But I don't think anyone without direct access to the player or his examination records can know the full extent of his diagnosis or future prognosis.
- MJL

and you can't have access to his records without a HIPAA release and good luck getting one of those from him.

I understand, and still fear it.

The man had a septal defect, which is obviously a heart defect. He had a stroke and heart surgery.

This man is a professional athlete that plays a physically gruelling game 4 nights each week.

So, let's talk about the stroke. A stroke is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. In Letang's case, blood was seeping into his heart's right ventricle from his left ventricle, via this hole. That means blood was bypassing his lungs, since deoxygenated blood is pumped into the lungs for oxygenation by the right ventricle, then flows back into the left atrium/ventricle to be pumped into the body. This hole meant some blood was bypassing this route. Oxygenated blood was being mixed with deoxygenated blood in his left ventricle, essentially diluting the oxygen concentration in the blood being pumped into the body. Eventually it reached that breaking point, and his brain suffered from apoxia (lack of oxygen). This manifests itself as a stroke.

A person "has a stroke" because of apoxia in the brain. That means brain cells die. That has lasting effects, and makes you more prone to future stroke. You never know. That hole could open up again. The man plays a gruelling game that is insanely hard on the heart.

Moreover, hidden damage to his heart caused by his condition could be present, such as the death of cardiac cells due to apoxia. On the same token, his heart surgery may have also weakened or compromised cardiac muscle.

So yeah. I'll stay away from him.
- Giroux_Is_God

the mechanism of stroke in letang's case that you suggest is not correct, at least not what is currently thought to happen. you are right that his health in the future has to be considered higher risk then other players.

with a septal defect, thrombus from the venous circulation can go to the left side of the heart from the right side through the septal defect. normally the pressures are higher on the left so this doesn't happen, but during certain situations like coughing, valsalva, and hockey games, the pressure can be higher on the right side transiently and cause the clot to travel from the right to the left ventricle. then the clot can embolize to the brain and cause a stroke.

serious question - if you sign an over 35 contract and the player dies, does his cap hit remain?
- wilsonecho91

Yes. At least there's nothing in the CBA that makes an exception

MedicalBuzz

I don't see how anyone medically trained or not, could know all the facts of his condition just based on what is written. It has to involve some speculation. Someone like you, who obviously has some medical knowledge can make some general statements about strokes and their causes. But I don't think anyone without direct access to the player or his examination records can know the full extent of his diagnosis or future prognosis.
- MJL

Yeah okay bud

Yes. At least there's nothing in the CBA that makes an exception
- Jsaquella

that's asinine.

the mechanism of stroke in letang's case that you suggest is not correct, at least not what is currently thought to happen. you are right that his health in the future has to be considered higher risk then other players.

with a septal defect, thrombus from the venous circulation can go to the left side of the heart from the right side through the septal defect. normally the pressures are higher on the left so this doesn't happen, but during certain situations like coughing, valsalva, and hockey games, the pressure can be higher on the right side transiently and cause the clot to travel from the right to the left ventricle. then the clot can embolize to the brain and cause a stroke.
- Marc D

I see what you're saying.

It's gotta be possible that either can happen, right?

Is this mechanism "normally" the cause of stroke in patients with septal defects?

and you can't have access to his records without a HIPAA release and good luck getting one of those from him.
- wilsonecho91

I think that if the Flyers were going to trade for a player like Letang, it would include some kind of clause on passing a physical and full medical examination due to his stroke history. They'd have to have some kind of protection there, to make sure there aren't any serious issues as much as possible.

and you can't have access to his records without a HIPAA release and good luck getting one of those from him.
- wilsonecho91

Wow I wonder how that would work. Seriously.

Yeah okay bud
- Giroux_Is_God

It seems that Marc D has a difference of opinion! So who's right here? How can there be two separate opinions on something so clear cut? I think this is why Doctors actually examine patients, rather then just guess based on written evidence what a person's medical condition or prognosis is. I don't think someone has to be medically trained to realize that.

Wow I wonder how that would work. Seriously.
- Giroux_Is_God

i was kidding, but i'd think his player contract incorporates by reference some provision of the CBA that requires a player to provide a HIPAA release upon reasonable request from an NHL team.
lawyer buzz

I see what you're saying.

It's gotta be possible that either can happen, right?

Is this mechanism "normally" the cause of stroke in patients with septal defects?
- Giroux_Is_God

Yea okay bud!


It seems that Marc D has a difference of opinion! So who's right here? How can there be two separate opinions on something so clear cut? I think this is why Doctor's actually examine patients, rather then just guess based on written evidence was a person's medical condition or prognosis is. I don't think someone has to be medically trained to realize that.
- MJL

It seems he does! How about that!

The point that still stands is there's still plenty of risk going along with a player like Letang. I don't think you need to be medically trained to realized that either [/img]

- wilsonecho91

Girls have weaker hearts

I see what you're saying.

It's gotta be possible that either can happen, right?

Is this mechanism "normally" the cause of stroke in patients with septal defects?
- Giroux_Is_God

its believed that an embolus from the heart is the cause of stroke in people with septal defects (cardiac source of emboli are the accepted cause of stroke in atrial fib, and likely the cause in vsd).

but in vsd, it isn't known as a fact, it is an accepted theory

the fact is that septal defects are very common, I read a study saying that said ~ 40% of people are found to have them at autopsy.

the interesting thing is not all of the people with septal defects have strokes

usually the risk goes up with larger defects, and with people who have risks for forming venous blood clots

I think with Letang the most one can say is his health is at higher risk in the future

he may never have another event hopefully, but he is a higher risk then someone who never had a septal defect. the future is really hard to predict, even knowing and understanding what happened to him

i was kidding, but i'd think his player contract incorporates by reference some provision of the CBA that requires a player to provide a HIPAA release upon reasonable request from an NHL team.
lawyer buzz
- wilsonecho91

Yeah good point. But still, that's his call. Can the league tell him he needs to release that stuff? Doesn't that go against hipaa itself??

I'd love to know how that would work.

Injury issues factored in with Meszaros and Lecavalier. If Meszaros was a healthy player without the injury history, he could've been easily moved. I think many on here undervalue our own players.
- MJL

Grossmann has injury concerns and Streit has age concerns relative to his contract.

I just don't think teams will be banging down the doors for 3rd pairing defenseman until the TDL.