Problem is, the leafs always do well in the first half, it's the second half they fall apart in lately.
- Fakepartofme

ok but last year, even when Toronto's record was solid, everyone knew that things weren't stable. any success Toronto had last year was due to individual performances (Kessel, Bernier) way more than any cohesive team performance. if that trend continues through 40 games, the Leafs getting massively outshot and out-possessed, but they're still in PO position, RC should still be canned.

Some guy in the ek blog saying Reimer isn't even worth a 3rd round pick. Maybe a 4th round pick.
- JVR_42_PK81

value baby value.

ok but last year, even when Toronto's record was solid, everyone knew that things weren't stable. any success Toronto had last year was due to individual performances (Kessel, Bernier) way more than any cohesive team performance. if that trend continues through 40 games, the Leafs getting massively outshot and out-possessed, but they're still in PO position, RC should still be canned.
- DoubleDown

thats a really interesting question

ok but last year, even when Toronto's record was solid, everyone knew that things weren't stable. any success Toronto had last year was due to individual performances (Kessel, Bernier) way more than any cohesive team performance. if that trend continues through 40 games, the Leafs getting massively outshot and out-possessed, but they're still in PO position, RC should still be canned.
- DoubleDown

It is not so much being out shot, it is the quality scoring chances that killed them.

That is a direct result of positioning (system).

how short of a leash do you think Carlyle has? Like a 2-8 start is that enough to get him canned?
- Popcorn Kid

you would think.

thats a really interesting question
- senstroll

yup because it's tough to fire a coach when you're in PO position.
but Shanahan doesn't seem like he has an issue with tough decisions...

It is not so much being out shot, it is the quality scoring chances that killed them.

That is a direct result of positioning (system).
- LeafMan

thankfully the leafs now have someone who will not allow the leafs to believe this

yup because it's tough to fire a coach when you're in PO position.
but Shanahan doesn't seem like he has an issue with tough decisions...
- DoubleDown

i like it

forget optics just do whats best

if the leafs trade Reimer who is the backup?
- senstroll

... I think Reimer and Franson may both be here this year.

It is not so much being out shot, it is the quality scoring chances that killed them.

That is a direct result of positioning (system).
- LeafMan

I think being outshot is a direct result of the system and the fundamental flaw that cost them a playoff spot last season. If they get outshot like that again this year, the results will probably be even worse.

... I think Reimer and Franson may both be here this year.
- Aetherial

Freimerstein

... I think Reimer and Franson may both be here this year.
- Aetherial

Reimer isn't going anywhere.

You can't get squat for him in a trade, his cap hit is decent and there isn't a better backup out there, so what's the advantage to trading him?

Franson may be gone, imho. He can put up points, but he's redundant on the Leafs D corp. If you can get a guy who plays a little less offence and a little more defence, I think you pull the trigger.

thankfully the leafs now have someone who will not allow the leafs to believe this
- senstroll

Well here is the problem, most stats are subjective and the opinion of one person's interpretation, so if you have unreliable numbers inputted, it is garbage going in which results in garbage going out.

Leafs quality scoring chances against was self evident. Better positioning and system results in gap closure which in turn cuts shots and more importantly better scoring chances against.

I think being outshot is a direct result of the system and the fundamental flaw that cost them a playoff spot last season. If they get outshot like that again this year, the results will probably be even worse.
- Aetherial

You guys keep going on an on about the system the Leafs played last year.

I must admit, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Reimer isn't going anywhere.

You can't get squat for him in a trade, his cap hit is decent and there isn't a better backup out there, so what's the advantage to trading him?

Franson may be gone, imho. He can put up points, but he's redundant on the Leafs D corp. If you can get a guy who plays a little less offence and a little more defence, I think you pull the trigger.
- Atomic Wedgie

The Franson/Gorges made sense in that optic.

ok but last year, even when Toronto's record was solid, everyone knew that things weren't stable. any success Toronto had last year was due to individual performances (Kessel, Bernier) way more than any cohesive team performance. if that trend continues through 40 games, the Leafs getting massively outshot and out-possessed, but they're still in PO position, RC should still be canned.
- DoubleDown

He should have been canned anyway.

I do not believe the Leafs had a contending roster or a contending defense group but there is no excuse for the way that team was outshot and it was indicative of the run of play.

I think the reasons for the epic collapse go way deeper than possession stats, but I think that a team with that poor possession was doomed to fail anyway.

Well here is the problem, most stats are subjective and the opinion of one person's interpretation, so if you have unreliable numbers inputted, it is garbage going in which results in garbage going out.

Leafs quality scoring chances against was self evident.
- LeafMan

If Kessel puts a saucer pass right onto Bozak's tape, in front of a wide-open net, is it really a quality scoring chance?

You guys keep going on an on about the system the Leafs played last year.

I must admit, I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Atomic Wedgie

thats because there was no system

You guys keep going on an on about the system the Leafs played last year.

I must admit, I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Atomic Wedgie

Due to the lack of one...?

You guys keep going on an on about the system the Leafs played last year.

I must admit, I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Atomic Wedgie

To be honest, my only thought on this comes from what was purportedly said by MacArthur and from watching the Leafs lose a huge percentage of puck battles in the offensive and defensive zones.

Those two things lead me to believe that there was at least some "intent" in the system that was flawed.

I just don't think the roster was *that* bad, even though it wasn't great.

If Kessel puts a saucer pass right onto Bozak's tape, in front of a wide-open net, is it really a quality scoring chance?
- Atomic Wedgie

Did anybody see it or hear it?

I can see a Petan as he's undersized and risky making it in a top-six role.

Depends on how much the Peg want Reimer.

Pros: when he's good, he's awesome! He's from the Winnipeg area and would love to play for the Jets. Reimer is a fantastic person, the perfect feel good story for the locals...

Cons: he hasn't really established himself as a starter. Caveat is he faced 1,000,000 shots, but yet he still had a fantastic sav %. Tim Thomas hadn't established himself either until his early 30's. Goalies are a funny lot...

Petan was a 2nd rounder....Leafs getting a 2nd or 3rd rounder was always the prediction.....so this could work.
- Smileypants17

Forgot one under the Cons:

-Catches and retains 3 out of every 10 shots on the glove side.

As a result:

-Re-directs 4 out of every 10 glove side shots to the slot for a scoring chance.
-The remaining 3 out of every 10 shots to his glove side beat Reimer cleanly and either a) go in or b) hit the post.

This is why he hasn't been traded yet...everyone knows he has a weak glove and has been exploited in pressure situations twice in successive years - first time it was a game - second time a segment of a season.

He's your opening night back-up as a result...
(and despite all the above I don't think it's the worst thing in the world with Reimer as your back-up - lot's of goalies have a bad glove and give up rebounds...hopefully he regains some of his confidence and is a contributor through play or trade to a successful season)

You guys keep going on an on about the system the Leafs played last year.

I must admit, I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Atomic Wedgie

Either did Randy...

Did anybody see it or hear it?
- Aetherial

And if they did, could you hear the sound of one hand clapping?

If Kessel puts a saucer pass right onto Bozak's tape, in front of a wide-open net, is it really a quality scoring chance?
- Atomic Wedgie

This is a myth, Bozak connected on a lot of cross ice or out front passes from Kessel. Another advantage or the torture of re-watching the games.