If anyone read Bob McKenzie's story about analytics..what did you guys think? He basically said that no team uses Corsi and that all teams have their own flavor of more useful analytics.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

TSN's Bob McKenzie was answering questions about this subject Wednesday afternoon and suggested that hockey analytics inside most NHL organizations were so beyond the debate of Corsi% merit that it wasn't even worth discussing. I found this interesting — not for the fact that teams with nearly limitless resources could pull more data than part-time guys doing it for fun on the internet (this seems obvious), but for the fact that there still seems to be a very real interpretation issue as to what matters and what does not. It took me all of 10 minutes to produce this list, and I would have had just as easy of a time recreating an entirely new one with another assortment of bad, easily avoidable moves.

Bob McKenzie might be right about organizational hockey analytics being more complex/advanced. But better? pic.twitter.com/jRr23Kmbf3

— Travis Yost (@TravisHeHateMe) July 23, 2014

http://www.sportingnews.c...hl-kyle-dubas-maple-leafs

Amen! The only Flyers fans I have ever really had trouble with are the ones who claim to be Flyers fans but never seem to watch and or care about Flyers games unless it is against the Pens and then they disappear if they lose and just repeat "Cindy Sucks" and "Cindy Whines" comments and then if they win they are all in your face about how much better they are. But the same thing can be said for the Yinzer Steelers fans who only care about hockey once football season is over and they don't have something else to pay attention to.
- PensFan1103

Yea, I believe both cities fans' both have their extremes (good and bad). Going to school at Penn State I experienced it all. Ultimately, a lot of fights that ended with "Count the Super Bowls" and "When was the Flyers last cup?".

That column was so zzzzzz

Even the facebook people who generally thinks hockey doesn't have a cap limit and always complain pittsburgh didn't overpaid some UFA top 6 were saying on the comments below the column that it was awful.

You have to wait for him to broadly paint most Pens fans with the same brush repeatedly, bro. learn the lore
- BulliesPhan87

you have to cherry pick your statements better bro. i provided numerous qualifiers for the vast majority of my diatribes.

You have to wait for him to broadly paint most Pens fans with the same brush repeatedly, bro. learn the lore
- BulliesPhan87

besides, Bob Ross always taught me to use the broad brushes very well.

TSN's Bob McKenzie was answering questions about this subject Wednesday afternoon and suggested that hockey analytics inside most NHL organizations were so beyond the debate of Corsi% merit that it wasn't even worth discussing. I found this interesting — not for the fact that teams with nearly limitless resources could pull more data than part-time guys doing it for fun on the internet (this seems obvious), but for the fact that there still seems to be a very real interpretation issue as to what matters and what does not. It took me all of 10 minutes to produce this list, and I would have had just as easy of a time recreating an entirely new one with another assortment of bad, easily avoidable moves.

Bob McKenzie might be right about organizational hockey analytics being more complex/advanced. But better? pic.twitter.com/jRr23Kmbf3

— Travis Yost (@TravisHeHateMe) July 23, 2014

http://www.sportingnews.c...hl-kyle-dubas-maple-leafs
- Ryan_Wilson

I think that's the most important part is that most of those moves are easily avoidable. Analytics or not...avoiding narratives is another key. Hemsky was a perfect example of that. I keep going back and forth on if I'd rather the Pens signed Hemsky for $4M or Ehrhoff for $4M. I think I'd only choose Ehrhoff if we still find away to address the top 6. Otherwise, Hemsky was a more important need at the same price/talent level.

I think talent wise, Makin is the best in the world. He can take his skill to a whole other level. However its not on a consistent rate. Crosby is the more complete player and has the leadership/toughness Malkin doesn't have. Malkin gets banged up, he usually shuts down. Crosby seems to rise to the occasion in Philly, Malkin not so much.
- sammy87

uh, wasn't the whole narrative on Sid this post-season on how he was getting bagned up and thrown off his game?

If anyone read Bob McKenzie's story about analytics..what did you guys think? He basically said that no team uses Corsi and that all teams have their own flavor of more useful analytics.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Haven't read the article but I believe Corsi/Fenwick's usefulness is severely limited, especially as they are described as possession stats.

Who decided to call these possession stats? They have nothing to do with possession. All it measures is shot attempts for and against. There is no requirement for "quality shot attempts". I'd rather my players hold onto the puck(real possession) and look for a quality pass/shot opportunity than randomly fire pucks at the net all game long.

Firing pucks toward the net from wherever(like neutral zone, or behind the net in the corner, etc.) likely will produce a really high Corsi/Fenwick.

You'd also have to take into consideration 'zone starts' to compare players. Guys who face off in the defensive zone more often are more likely to have more shots fired towards their own net than the players who get more offensive zone starts do.

Pittsburgh: "Wasted years of Crosby/Malkin with zero F depth".

This seems a little harsh. I 100% agree that a better supporting cast could of been provided, however, in their time we have been to two finals, winning one and a ECF loss (embarrassing as it was). I don't think it's as much a waste as it might appear. Sure LA and Chicago have done more as of lately, but the Penguins aren't too far off IMO.

In short, we can't win every year, there are certain hurdles that are just too difficult to overcome. For instance the year we lost to Tampa due to the major injury bug incident. This is not an excuse. Yes, I have taken into the account we have hit extreme lows which are inexcusable such as the Philly debacle.

I look forward to the next couple of years when the Penguins will have greater flexibility producing a more well rounded rosters.
- penguins-4-life

You are right, there is not much better a team can do than the Pens have done the last 5 or 6 years playoff depth wise. Its a lot more the way we lost in the playoffs (the SCF loss not counted in my statements following, that was a hard fought series). Blowing 3-1 leads, or getting the living poop beat out of us in 4 or 5 games.

Had 2, or even just 1 of our playoff series losses been... lets say, we win the first game, lose 2, win one, lose two, for a 4-2 loss... or us going down 3-1, then winning two, but losing the game 7. Not blowing a lead in a series or a soul crushing blowout.

Hope that made sense to people here.

you have to cherry pick your statements better bro. i provided numerous qualifiers for the vast majority of my diatribes.
- stayinthefnnet

-paint a fanbase as neanderthal chest thumpers or w/e
-identify a subgroup that is "acceptable"
-ensure that this subgroup is probably less than 1%
-repeat all this to members of the "acceptable" subgroup in their domain

Now try applying the same logic when talking to somebody about their family, their circle of friends, or some other group they identify with and see how it goes over.

I wouldn't try that in these threads, particularly on a regular basis. I guarantee my act wouldn't fly if I repeatedly accused most Pens fans of being fairweather fans who don't understand the sport and only care when they've been handed a top flight player (but you guys are ok, it's just almost all the Pens fans aside from yinz).

Not trying to be a Richard or endanger an e-friendship here, but it's definitely insulting despite (and in light of) the qualifiers.

besides, Bob Ross always taught me to use the broad brushes very well.
- stayinthefnnet

that was supposed to be your little secret

-paint a fanbase as neanderthal chest thumpers or w/e
-identify a subgroup that is "acceptable"
-ensure that this subgroup is probably less than 1%
-repeat all this to members of the "acceptable" subgroup in their domain

Now try applying the same logic when talking to somebody about their family, their circle of friends, or some other group they identify with and see how it goes over.

I wouldn't try that in these threads, particularly on a regular basis. I guarantee my act wouldn't fly if I repeatedly accused most Pens fans of being fairweather fans who don't understand the sport and only care when they've been handed a top flight player (but you guys are ok, it's just almost all the Pens fans aside from yinz).

Not trying to be a Richard or endanger an e-friendship here, but it's definitely insulting despite (and in light of) the qualifiers.
- BulliesPhan87

My family thrives on talking bad on everyone else in the family

The best possession team I've ever seen were the '08 and '09 Red Wings. It was a little surprising to read Babcocks statement yesterday about analytics.

Travis Yost is a bit of a goofy writer. I realize he writes for Ottawa so he's supposed to hate on the Leafs, which he does on a regular basis.

But he's totally trolling for hits from the largest hockey market when he includes the Bozak contract under his Dumb poop report. $4.2 million is a fair contract for any .5 ppg player.

Bozak career PPG? .62

He was huge last year. Put up 49p in 58g scoring at a .85 ppg pace. He kills penalties and he's about the only Leaf who takes face-offs. Oh and he was a +2. On the 2013-2014 Leafs. That might be the most impressive stat in the entire NHL.

They should have a trophy for being a + player on the Leafs.

Hockeybuzzcast was just talking about Marleau as the most likely to move from the Sharks and that the Penguins make sense....so....you know what that means..

edit - to clarify...not a rumor...just discussions.

Hockeybuzzcast was just talking about Marleau as the most likely to move from the Sharks and that the Penguins make sense....so....you know what that means..

edit - to clarify...not a rumor...just discussions.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

That means it won't happen if its from EK

My family thrives on talking bad on everyone else in the family
- Guile

HA, that's my inlaws. I moved across the country to get away from them.

That means it won't happen if its from EK
- Guile

I'm surprised anyone watches that. I tried once and lasted one minute. Creepy, hide your children feel to it.

I'm surprised anyone watches that. I tried once and lasted one minute. Creepy, hide your children feel to it.
- Topshelf Mountain

Lol it was my first time...I deleted my browser history afterwards

Anyone have thoughts on what I brought up earlier..

I keep going back and forth on if I'd rather the Pens signed Hemsky for $4M or Ehrhoff for $4M. I think I'd only choose Ehrhoff if we still find away to address the top 6. Otherwise, Hemsky was a more important need at the same price/talent level.

-paint a fanbase as neanderthal chest thumpers or w/e
-identify a subgroup that is "acceptable"
-ensure that this subgroup is probably less than 1%
-repeat all this to members of the "acceptable" subgroup in their domain

Now try applying the same logic when talking to somebody about their family, their circle of friends, or some other group they identify with and see how it goes over.

I wouldn't try that in these threads, particularly on a regular basis. I guarantee my act wouldn't fly if I repeatedly accused most Pens fans of being fairweather fans who don't understand the sport and only care when they've been handed a top flight player (but you guys are ok, it's just almost all the Pens fans aside from yinz).

Not trying to be a Richard or endanger an e-friendship here, but it's definitely insulting despite (and in light of) the qualifiers.
- BulliesPhan87

i still disagree to a certain extent, but that was put in a very polite and rational way. so dont worry, you are in no danger of being a Richard on endangering an e-friendship on my account.

i still disagree to a certain extent, but that was put in a very polite and rational way. so dont worry, you are in no danger of being a Richard on endangering an e-friendship on my account.
- stayinthefnnet

Y r u likin teh Flyerz fanz man thay all r teh suckz!!!

-paint a fanbase as neanderthal chest thumpers or w/e
-identify a subgroup that is "acceptable"
-ensure that this subgroup is probably less than 1%
-repeat all this to members of the "acceptable" subgroup in their domain

Now try applying the same logic when talking to somebody about their family, their circle of friends, or some other group they identify with and see how it goes over.

I wouldn't try that in these threads, particularly on a regular basis. I guarantee my act wouldn't fly if I repeatedly accused most Pens fans of being fairweather fans who don't understand the sport and only care when they've been handed a top flight player (but you guys are ok, it's just almost all the Pens fans aside from yinz).

Not trying to be a Richard or endanger an e-friendship here, but it's definitely insulting despite (and in light of) the qualifiers.
- BulliesPhan87

i guess its just a perception thing for me. while your factual account may be fairly accurate, i find the different subgroup analogy to be pretty strained.

if someone evaluates say, hey the average flyers fan is someone that embodies quality XYZ, in the same way as if someone says to them, hey, the average member of your family is XYZ.

that is utterly ridiculous.

Anyone have thoughts on what I brought up earlier..

I keep going back and forth on if I'd rather the Pens signed Hemsky for $4M or Ehrhoff for $4M. I think I'd only choose Ehrhoff if we still find away to address the top 6. Otherwise, Hemsky was a more important need at the same price/talent level.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

i get that there is a need up front.

but, at least to me anyway, ehrhoff is so much better at what he does than hemsky is at what he does, that given the same price, id take ehrhoff, despite the position need relativity.

i guess its just a perception thing for me. while your factual account may be fairly accurate, i find the different subgroup analogy to be pretty strained.

if someone evaluates say, hey the average flyers fan is someone that embodies quality XYZ, in the same way as if someone says to them, hey, the average member of your family is XYZ.

that is utterly ridiculous.
- stayinthefnnet

Visit the typical family in the deep South, and I think you'll paint a fairly broad picture of people in the South.

In the end, generalizations are called generalizations because, generally, that's the way people in groups act. Yes, the typical "Flyers fan" is an idiot who does not understand more than "SHOOOOOT!" and "HIT SOMEBODY!" I think that the poblem between you and that..."woman"...was that most (not all) people on the Flyers board are not like the typical Flyers fan.

It would be like me going into a Caps blog and calling them all front-runners who only still have a team because visiting fans filled half of their building for the better part of 2 decades. It's true, but I wouldn't go in there and state that. Well, okay, I would, but I don't frequent that board either.

Anyway, I don't care, I like both you and BulliesPhan. In the end, we all just need to get naked and move on.