I think the truth is that these advanced stats are fine for arguments but you couldn't pull me into one. Think about it this way: There are 82 games per team per yr, 750+ players each participating in an average of let's say an average of 15 minutes a game. He'll be involved in loosely an statistical occurrence every 3 seconds. What average person can wade through that much information and stand on a soap box and make a salient argument.

Each team is doing it for their individual players and adjusting the statistics via video views but think of the number of people you would need to do it for a whole league. And let me tell you that those teams aren't sharing so it doesn't exist.
- mayorofangrytown

Subscribed

I feel shame.
- Giroux_Is_God

You should. You can't be showing off with misuse of terminology (or data, for that matter).












Nevermind. That would be the end of HockeyBuzz.

You should. You can't be showing off with misuse of terminology (or data, for that matter).












Nevermind. That would be the end of HockeyBuzz.
- tangent_man

But we still have trade scenarios, scapegoats, etc

It would just make HockeyBuzz a little...duller (if that's not a word, it is now)

Subscribed
- Giroux_Is_God

I've been kind of stand-offish on this whole advanced stats thing. If I was 20 I'd probably be eating it up but I've watched enough hockey organically over the last 35+ years to know a good player and a bad player when I see one. I know enough to see where the mistake was made and I'm good with that.

After listening to more statistical conversation than a human should endure I've been lead to this conclusion. Corsi and Fenwick and all that is like a fat crayon drawing of a tree. I can identify it as a tree. What teams are doing (all teams) with video break down and stats analysis... they're growing real trees and they aren't sharing yet. They might never share. That's their job. No one else is doing it right now.

So off-base that it's not even funny.
- bmeltzer

The exact words were on a Devils broadcast:

Chico Resch- commenting on how it was good that the Flyers were becoming a good team again

Emrick. " Er. no its not"

I rest my case for unprofessionalism

The exact words were on a Devils broadcast:

Chico Resch- commenting on how it was good that the Flyers were becoming a good team again

Emrick. " Er. no its not"

I rest my case for unprofessionalism
- Steelmanpa

I dislike Emrick and even I get what he's trying to say. He has a weird sense of humor, much like an elderly person from the early 1900's, and he's saying a good Flyers team is not good for the Devils. I can even hear the weird pitch shift and the sly grin he must've sported after saying it.

NEXT

Can't ignore the flaws of Corsi because "it's the best stat we got" anymore then you could with +/-.
- MJL

Shot metrics have gone through an exhaustive process of testing and peer-review. +/- never went through that kind of scrutiny -- if it had, it wouldn't have ever passed the initial statistical smell test.

You are right about one thing... as the NHL collects more detailed data, the stats will get more definitive -- especially when they introduce player/puck tracking. But that doesn't mean any of this stuff we're talking about right now gets thrown out... it just gets further refined.

Shot metrics have gone through an exhaustive process of testing and peer-review. +/- never went through that kind of scrutiny -- if it had, it wouldn't have ever passed the initial statistical smell test.

You are right about one thing... as the NHL collects more detailed data, the stats will get more definitive -- especially when they introduce player/puck tracking. But that doesn't mean any of this stuff we're talking about right now gets thrown out... it just gets further refined.
- Tomahawk

+/- was no different. It went through the same evolution. It fell under the same category of the best we got. And guess what, even though Corsi has come along and improved upon as a measure of possession, and fixed the issue of sample size, +/- is still around and hasn't been thrown out. Nobody, myself included has ever said to throw it out. Just to use it properly, and with the right context. But that doesn't happen that often on here. Even today, a post was made by one of the biggest pundits of Corsi, of how cut and dried it is.

And as I've said multiple times, the principle of Corsi is sound. It is the data collection that is the issue. If that could be refined to eliminate the false data as much as possible, and somehow standardized. It would be a fantastic stat.
And while I can offer no direct proof, that is what NHL teams are attempting to do internally I believe. And it's because they are trying to eliminate the inherent huge flaw of false data, to try and use it as a tool to measure players. Which I hope they can successfully do, because then I think it would be a great tool for a team to use. And I hope the Flyers get involved in this type of area.

I dislike Emrick and even I get what he's trying to say. He has a weird sense of humor, much like an elderly person from the early 1900's, and he's saying a good Flyers team is not good for the Devils. I can even hear the weird pitch shift and the sly grin he must've sported after saying it.

NEXT
- feelingkettle

I think he harbors ill towards the franchise from not being retained by the Flyers, though he has had a successful career. I think its a dig especially since without other teams fans, the Devils have no gate revenue historically

I think he harbors ill towards the franchise from not being retained by the Flyers, though he has had a successful career. I think its a dig especially since without other teams fans, the Devils have no gate revenue historically
- Steelmanpa

I think you are reading way too much into this.

I dislike Emrick and even I get what he's trying to say. He has a weird sense of humor, much like an elderly person from the early 1900's, and he's saying a good Flyers team is not good for the Devils. I can even hear the weird pitch shift and the sly grin he must've sported after saying it.

NEXT
- feelingkettle

you frankers and your home feeds have noooo idea

I've been kind of stand-offish on this whole advanced stats thing. If I was 20 I'd probably be eating it up but I've watched enough hockey organically over the last 35+ years to know a good player and a bad player when I see one. I know enough to see where the mistake was made and I'm good with that.

After listening to more statistical conversation than a human should endure I've been lead to this conclusion. Corsi and Fenwick and all that is like a fat crayon drawing of a tree. I can identify it as a tree. What teams are doing (all teams) with video break down and stats analysis... they're growing real trees and they aren't sharing yet. They might never share. That's their job. No one else is doing it right now.
- mayorofangrytown

And this is the Flyers

I think you are reading way too much into this.
- feelingkettle

i don't know the root is but dude was rude


anyone else on here stuck with devils feed want to comment?

you frankers and your home feeds have noooo idea
- -davies-

If you are meeting a person for dinner, would you rather they arrive in ill humor, or knife it in?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=727093
- Tomahawk

And yet they signed Cleary and even gave him a raise.

http://www.extraskater.co.../player/228/daniel-cleary

If you are meeting a person for dinner, would you rather they arrive in ill humor, or knife it in?
- feelingkettle

i prefer a spirited discourse

I've been kind of stand-offish on this whole advanced stats thing. If I was 20 I'd probably be eating it up but I've watched enough hockey organically over the last 35+ years to know a good player and a bad player when I see one. I know enough to see where the mistake was made and I'm good with that.

After listening to more statistical conversation than a human should endure I've been lead to this conclusion. Corsi and Fenwick and all that is like a fat crayon drawing of a tree. I can identify it as a tree. What teams are doing (all teams) with video break down and stats analysis... they're growing real trees and they aren't sharing yet. They might never share. That's their job. No one else is doing it right now.
- mayorofangrytown

I agree on all counts. Well said.

Pretty sure I've been pretty standoffish about it too, considering my "contributions" to the matter

i prefer a spirited discourse
- -davies-

What if it would not go?

I've been kind of stand-offish on this whole advanced stats thing. If I was 20 I'd probably be eating it up but I've watched enough hockey organically over the last 35+ years to know a good player and a bad player when I see one. I know enough to see where the mistake was made and I'm good with that.

After listening to more statistical conversation than a human should endure I've been lead to this conclusion. Corsi and Fenwick and all that is like a fat crayon drawing of a tree. I can identify it as a tree. What teams are doing (all teams) with video break down and stats analysis... they're growing real trees and they aren't sharing yet. They might never share. That's their job. No one else is doing it right now.
- mayorofangrytown

What if it would not go?
- feelingkettle

i would squib it on back i believe

i would squib it on back i believe
- -davies-

interesting

interesting
- feelingkettle

OH WHAT EXCITEMENT

OH WHAT EXCITEMENT
- Giroux_Is_God

I think Emrick's "HIT THE POST WITH THE SHOT!" is LOL at funny, but hey that's just me.

I would have to believe that if the Flyers truly wanted Buff they would have done so by now. I personally don't see any fascination with the guy. He's just a big bodied winger disguised as a defensemen. The only defensive guy on the Jets I really like is Trouba and Lord knows he isn't going anywhere.

Nobody, myself included has ever said to throw it out. Just to use it properly, and with the right context. But that doesn't happen that often on here.
- MJL

The people who talk stats on here tend to do it in a very thoughtful and informed manner... Mr "Pundit" included.