And who would you replace him with?

Vokoun is the only available guy with even comparable numbers, and he's coming off a life-threatening condition.
- lumlums

give some 600 thousand dollar flunky the damn job

And who would you replace him with?

Vokoun is the only available guy with even comparable numbers, and he's coming off a life-threatening condition.
- lumlums

maybe via UFA...there are other options

they do when they get top PP time

he also loses 20% of his ice time when you look at ES only.

also, getting a lot of ice time on the leafs of last season isnt exactly a "pro" argument
- Dozzer

ok if 5v5 is your criteria, here are the top point producing D over the past 5 years
points per 60... he is #8 right between some pretty good players

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

Now I know the argument changes to he sucks defensively.

give some 600 thousand dollar flunky the damn job
- Dozzer

I fit that criteria very well.

ok if 5v5 is your criteria, here are the top point producing D over the past 5 years
points per 60... he is #8 right between some pretty good players

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

Now I know the argument changes to he sucks defensively.
- senstroll

if you're defensive stats suck as bad as franson's i dont give a rats ass how many points he gets

big whoop.. he has a nice snap shot and gets lucky with his up ice passes sometimes.

ok if 5v5 is your criteria, here are the top point producing D over the past 5 years
points per 60... he is #8 right between some pretty good players

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

Now I know the argument changes to he sucks defensively.
- senstroll

Change it to last 3 yrs

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

I fit that criteria very well.
- Woderwick

SOLD

if you're defensive stats suck as bad as franson's i dont give a rats ass how many points he gets

big whoop.. he has a nice snap shot and gets lucky with his up ice passes sometimes.
- Dozzer

who has good defensive stats or is good defensively on the leafs?

give some 600 thousand dollar flunky the damn job
- Dozzer

we would but toskalas retired

who has good defensive stats or is good defensively on the leafs?
- senstroll

i am considering QoC here as well

can you imagine what phaneuf's defensive stats would be like playing against the guys franson does? or vice versa?

franson i would be fine with as a bottom pairing 2.5 million dollar guy who put up some numbers on the PP.

my issue is after this season the guy is going to be looking at 4.5-5 million per, long term. to which i say no thank you.

ok if 5v5 is your criteria, here are the top point producing D over the past 5 years
points per 60... he is #8 right between some pretty good players

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

Now I know the argument changes to he sucks defensively.
- senstroll

Here's an easy argument

If Franson had 33 points last year and was -20, you have to account for his TRUE negative.

Say 1/3 of his points were on the PP. That means he should've been +22, but to end up as -20, he had to be on the ice for 42 more goals than his team scored.

If you subtract the 42 goals against, from his points, his offensive contribution is far less than his defensive liability. He's technically negative points

Change it to last 3 yrs

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC
- PinkSock

nice,, you left it at 3000 minutes ..which he only played 2600+ in the past 3 years

solid

set it to 2500 and and he is 9th.

we would but toskalas retired
- jimi james

hopefully 600 grand warrants an expectation to save a 200 foot shot

Change it to last 3 yrs

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC
- PinkSock

http://stats.hockeyanalys...1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC
Now change it to 4 years

Stats can been manipulated to suit any ones claims

i am considering QoC here as well

can you imagine what phaneuf's defensive stats would be like playing against the guys franson does? or vice versa?

franson i would be fine with as a bottom pairing 2.5 million dollar guy who put up some numbers on the PP.

my issue is after this season the guy is going to be looking at 4.5-5 million per, long term. to which i say no thank you.
- Dozzer

He will be UFA, so not to worry about that.

give some 600 thousand dollar flunky the damn job
- Dozzer

He better be ready to play 35 games with Bernier as the #1.

i am considering QoC here as well

can you imagine what phaneuf's defensive stats would be like playing against the guys franson does? or vice versa?

franson i would be fine with as a bottom pairing 2.5 million dollar guy who put up some numbers on the PP.

my issue is after this season the guy is going to be looking at 4.5-5 million per, long term. to which i say no thank you.
- Dozzer

QoC is over stated..and not nearly as valuable as people think imo.

but I will play along... the difference is not much at all in the QoC.. Franson was not sheltered

if you say he was..you have to post some data to back that claim

He better be ready to play 35 games with Bernier as the #1.
- djamon

woderick you ready?

SOLD
- Dozzer

Excellent. I just have to let you guys know, Woderwick isn't my real name. So when you see me backing up Bernier - you'll finally find out who I really am.

woderick you ready?
- Dozzer

I wasn't bargaining on this at all...I may have to rethink this. You do it...you're a goalie and everything.

QoC is over stated..and not nearly as valuable as people think imo.

but I will play along... the difference is not much at all in the QoC.. Franson was not sheltered

if you say he was..you have to post some data to back that claim
- senstroll

playing third pairing minutes with PP time isnt sheltered?

honestly i dont have time right now, but i think you can find it on behindthenet.ca

He better be ready to play 35 games with Bernier as the #1.
- djamon

look at who the cup champ kings ran with as back ups all year

scrivens and some rookie kid

1A / 1B is over rated imo...

you pick your starter, and then go find your backup

I wasn't bargaining on this at all...I may have to rethink this. You do it...you're a goalie and everything.
- Woderwick

start me and i'll get the first overall in the leafs hands

nice,, you left it at 3000 minutes ..which he only played 2600+ in the past 3 years

solid

set it to 2500 and and he is 9th.
- senstroll

Chris Butler played 3000 minutes...lots of guys did

Here's an easy argument

If Franson had 33 points last year and was -20, you have to account for his TRUE negative.

Say 1/3 of his points were on the PP. That means he should've been +22, but to end up as -20, he had to be on the ice for 42 more goals than his team scored.

If you subtract the 42 goals against, from his points, his offensive contribution is far less than his defensive liability. He's technically negative points
- ILoveLamp

18 of his 33 points were from the PP.

So he scored or assisted on 15 goals ES. To get to -20, that means he was on the ice for 35 goals against compared to his contributions ES, or three times as much.

This number only gets worse when you realize the -20 is actually inflated due to the number of goals he was on the ice for in which he did not contribute to point-wise.