That's just false. Simmonds had six more goals and 2 less points then voracek playing less minutes on ES. Read had as may goals playing shut down 3rd line with limited pp time.
- 28Girouxsalem28

....and then there is Vinny....

Not sold on that. Voracek spent his entire first season as a Flyer not playing with Giroux. He drives play no matter who is on the ice with him.

Both are good players, Voracek is better, IMO. To put it another way, If a team was trading a good defenseman and said Voracek or Simmonds, I'd trade Simmonds
- Jsaquella

Id trade voracek. I get what your saying but simmonds puts up almost exact same number playing less minutes ES and without Giroux. Voracek is a great player and would probably be better suited not playing with Giroux but players he can make better. I would like Giroux to play 1st line and have voracek create plays for schenn on 2nd line.

Add another -1 to his totals.
- PLindbergh31

That's just false. Simmonds had six more goals and 2 less points then voracek playing less minutes on ES. Read had as may goals playing shut down 3rd line with limited pp time.
- 28Girouxsalem28

So? Simmonds is a better goal scorer than Voracek. Voracek is a dynamic player with the puck, who creates more opportunities for his linemates and drives play at an elite level. There's more to being a good player than scoring goals.

When has voracek been away from Giroux. He also has more even strength time then simmonds and plays with far better center and playmaker. Given the chance I think simmonds would be amazing next to Giroux. If hartnell can score 37 goals while falling down 35 times a game then simmonds could hit 40 goals.
- 28Girouxsalem28

In 11-12, Voracek's first season, he averaged 16:17 TOI as a 2nd/3rd line player. He had 18G/31/49 Pts in 78 games. That means he averaged 0.85G/1.46A/2.31Pts per 60 minutes. Again, these are his numbers WITHOUT Giroux.

Last season, he averaged 17:15 TOI on Giroux's wing. He had 23G/39/62Pts in 82 games. That means he averaged 0.97G/1.65A/2.63Pts per 60 minutes. These are his numbers WITH Giroux.

So, while his numbers with Giroux are obviously better than his numbers without him, he was still able to create a fair amount of offense without him, and that was 2 seasons ago, when he was only 22. So yes, he's more than capable of producing when away from Giroux.

....and then there is Vinny....
- section32

Who scored 20 goals playing 4th line and all over the lineup out of postion and a bad back... So yea I don't mind having him on my roster. Is it ideal? Absolutely not but the guy still has gas in the tank we just learned he couldn't play wing to save his life.

So forget about the will G beat out Clarke's scoring over the next 10 years (he won't). How about this - Will the Flyers move VLC before October? I say they won't.

Voracek improved when he came from Columbus because they needed him to be a franchise player, or at the very least a top line contributor. Here he was originally more of a role player. He blossomed.

I'd love for him to be able to fill the 'jack of all trades' role again someday. I think if the pressure is off, you'll see his point totals start to rise again. The dude is still young.

Id trade voracek. I get what your saying but simmonds puts up almost exact same number playing less minutes ES and without Giroux. Voracek is a great player and would probably be better suited not playing with Giroux but players he can make better. I would like Giroux to play 1st line and have voracek create plays for schenn on 2nd line.
- 28Girouxsalem28

It's not just numbers. Voracek creates space for other players on his line. He drives possession and is dynamic in controlling and moving the puck into the opposing team's end. Simmonds scores a lot of goals for three feet out.

Not sold on that. Voracek spent his entire first season as a Flyer not playing with Giroux. He drives play no matter who is on the ice with him.

Both are good players, Voracek is better, IMO. To put it another way, If a team was trading a good defenseman and said Voracek or Simmonds, I'd trade Simmonds
- Jsaquella

They're both on my untouchable list... I don't give a (frank) what dman is up for grabs. Both are near irreplaceable.

Think Simmer's still got some untapped upside... maybe legit 1st-line power forward? Voracek... you just can't afford to trade your best possession player.

So? Simmonds is a better goal scorer than Voracek. Voracek is a dynamic player with the puck, who creates more opportunities for his linemates and drives play at an elite level. There's more to being a good player than scoring goals.
- Jsaquella

Jonathan Cheechoo begs to differ.

They're both on my untouchable list... I don't give a (frank) what dman is up for grabs. Both are near irreplaceable.

Think Simmer's still got some untapped upside... maybe legit 1st-line power forward? Voracek... you just can't afford to trade your best possession player.
- Tomahawk

I'd trade anyone not named Giroux/Couturier for a legit top-pair defenseman under 30.

Who scored 20 goals playing 4th line and all over the lineup out of postion and a bad back... So yea I don't mind having him on my roster. Is it ideal? Absolutely not but the guy still has gas in the tank we just learned he couldn't play wing to save his life.
- 28Girouxsalem28

He's also a poor two way player, not a fast skater and doesn't really fit into the system the team has said they want to run.

20 goals is great and would help a lot of teams, but the Flyers need better ES and two way players.

So? Simmonds is a better goal scorer than Voracek. Voracek is a dynamic player with the puck, who creates more opportunities for his linemates and drives play at an elite level. There's more to being a good player than scoring goals.
- Jsaquella

So? Simmonds had 8 less assist then voracek. So I'm pretty sure he can drive the play as well. He also does it with what u deem lesser players. You're argument isn't making sense

He's also a poor two way player, not a fast skater and doesn't really fit into the system the team has said they want to run.

20 goals is great and would help a lot of teams, but the Flyers need better ES and two way players.
- Jsaquella

Zherdev what?

They're both on my untouchable list... I don't give a (frank) what dman is up for grabs. Both are near irreplaceable.

Think Simmer's still got some untapped upside... maybe legit 1st-line power forward? Voracek... you just can't afford to trade your best possession player.
- Tomahawk

Depends on the length of the list for me. if I have a 3 guy list, Simmonds just misses the cut. If I have a 5 guy list, he's on it.

They're both on my untouchable list... I don't give a (frank) what dman is up for grabs. Both are near irreplaceable.

Think Simmer's still got some untapped upside... maybe legit 1st-line power forward? Voracek... you just can't afford to trade your best possession player.
- Tomahawk

Truth, but I have to agree with Jsak - if I have to trade one of those players I trade Simmonds every time. As awesome as Simmonds is he's by far the more replaceable player.

So? Simmonds had 8 less assist then voracek. So I'm pretty sure he can drive the play as well. He also does it with what u deem lesser players. You're argument isn't making sense
- 28Girouxsalem28

And how many of those goal were rebound goals scored from 3 feet out? Voracek is the more skilled overall player. He just is. He drives play and creates chances. Simmonds is a better finisher.

I'd trade anyone not named Giroux/Couturier for a legit top-pair defenseman under 30.
- jmatchett383

G simmonds and couturier are my untouchable for a top d man.

G simmonds and couturier are my untouchable for a top d man.
- 28Girouxsalem28

If Simmonds was the key piece to acquiring a Shea Weber-type player, he's going.

So? Simmonds had 8 less assist then voracek. So I'm pretty sure he can drive the play as well. He also does it with what u deem lesser players. You're argument isn't making sense
- 28Girouxsalem28

Or his assists were more of the jamming around the net and someone got a dirty goal. He was the last person to get a shot on net, type assists.

Simmonds is not a puck possession forward. He IS a highly effective net presence.

Zherdev what?
- jmatchett383

Ha

If Simmonds was the key piece to acquiring a Shea Weber-type player, he's going.
- jmatchett383

Peace gawd!

So? Simmonds had 8 less assist then voracek. So I'm pretty sure he can drive the play as well. He also does it with what u deem lesser players. You're argument isn't making sense
- 28Girouxsalem28

Simmonds does not have the speed, puckhandling or passing ability to drive play forward.

Depends on the length of the list for me. if I have a 3 guy list, Simmonds just misses the cut. If I have a 5 guy list, he's on it.
- Jsaquella

In terms of forwards we can least afford to lose.

Giroux
Couturier
Voracek
Simmonds
BSchenn
Read

I'd trade anyone not named Giroux/Couturier for a legit top-pair defenseman under 30.
- jmatchett383

So would I, but I value Simmonds and Voracek very highly.

I would trade any player in the right deal.

With all the young defenseman, I'm not as eager to make a deal for that legit #1. I would certainly look into it, but the team isn't in as bad of a position as before.