I know that's why I brought it up.
- dbell646

To be honest when I made my line up there was no way I thought that we would go after any of them, but when we got Downie after pompously being told that there was no way we would by certain people I had to gloat.

If engelland could get it, despres could double that
- drummer829

Engelland got that because Calgary had to hit the cap floor... thats what I heard, anyhow... They also said that they believe he was underutilized in Pitt. Interesting though.

You guys think that Sutter is being shopped, or is he merely just available for the right price?
- Jeropotato

I strongly believe that Rutherford really wants to keep Sutter. So, no, I don't think he is being shopped. Sutter doesn't have all that great of trade value, especially when he isn't signed long term yet. So I think they want to get the long term deal done first.

Best case scenario is

a.) someone is so enamored by his playoff run, age, and supposed upside that they offer sheet him and we get a 1st and 3rd rounder for him.

b.) he's traded/packaged for a top 6 wing. I'd look at teams like MIN or TBL with lots of talented forward prospects. I think those teams are deep enough with young wingers (like we are defenseman) that they would give one up for an NHL ready 3rd liner.

To be honest when I made my line up there was no way I thought that we would go after any of them, but when we got Downie after pompously being told that there was no way we would by certain people I had to gloat.
- nbartley9

I have no issues with the Downie types. I think they are necessary. I hope that he can still score some goals though. Biz well I just like reading his chirps on twitter

Hits that the opponent actually felt last year:

Sutter: 0

*Fixed
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Get used to it, because Spaling is the same way. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Spaling is similar to Sutter in that his defensive game is more about positioning, using his stick/reach, and reading plays than it is about physicality.

Get used to it, because Spaling is the same way. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Spaling is similar to Sutter in that his defensive game is more about positioning, using his stick/reach, and reading plays than it is about physicality.
- hardnosed

I view him way differently, the guy is not afraid to go into the corner and get roughed up and come out with the puck, same thing with the front of the net; he plays a fearless game. While he may not be Matt Cooke when it comes to hitting he is not afraid to play physical, while Sutter totally is.

Get used to it, because Spaling is the same way. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Spaling is similar to Sutter in that his defensive game is more about positioning, using his stick/reach, and reading plays than it is about physicality.
- hardnosed

That is easily fixed. Spaling has some meat on him and when he needs to hit he can certainly do so. Despite the numbers he does a damn good job anyway.

I strongly believe that Rutherford really wants to keep Sutter. So, no, I don't think he is being shopped. Sutter doesn't have all that great of trade value, especially when he isn't signed long term yet. So I think they want to get the long term deal done first.

Best case scenario is

a.) someone is so enamored by his playoff run, age, and supposed upside that they offer sheet him and we get a 1st and 3rd rounder for him.

b.) he's traded/packaged for a top 6 wing. I'd look at teams like MIN or TBL with lots of talented forward prospects. I think those teams are deep enough with young wingers (like we are defenseman) that they would give one up for an NHL ready 3rd liner.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

What is his ceiling? 2C on a weak team or 3C on a good one?

What is his ceiling? 2C on a weak team or 3C on a good one?
- Jeropotato

Pretty much... The problem is, when he is better suited for a 3C role, but wants a 2C money.

Pretty much... The problem is, when he is better suited for a 3C role, but wants a 2C money.
- Guile

While I totally understand what you mean, he is more suited to play as a second line center. He plays more of a skilled game than a 3rd line checker style of game. The big problem is that he is the most worthless player in the entire NHL.

While I totally understand what you mean, he is more suited to play as a second line center. He plays more of a skilled game than a 3rd line checker style of game. The big problem is that he is the most worthless player in the entire NHL.
- nbartley9

So... I'm gonna bite, because I am damn curious after all this time.

What is your reason for the hatred of Sutter? It can't be just how he plays... theres far more deserving of scorn for disappointing, wimpy, half-assed, or lazy play...

Just gotta know man.

Does he go to the net because he wants to be there or because he HAS to be there to score?

I still think giving up on one of the best snipers in the current NHL is foolish, but, if it had to happen, you have to get a lot more than what they got in return.

To me, this top 6 group looks pretty poor right now.

As for the locker room business, you make the point on the podcast of how teams like the Kings do well to ignore media narratives about players. I don't disagree that there are good locker room guys...we all know them from personal experience. It just seems that the team made a rash move for the sake of changing chemistry. If Hornqvist had some playoff success, that would be a bonus, but this is a guy with 3 playoff goals in 24 games. It's not easy to be a goal scorer making a living in the blue paint at playoff time.

While I totally understand what you mean, he is more suited to play as a second line center. He plays more of a skilled game than a 3rd line checker style of game. The big problem is that he is the most worthless player in the entire NHL.
- nbartley9

We need a 2C that can eventually slide down to 3C when Draisaitl is ready. That was not Sam Gagner so he gone, but were have a void right now, that's why I was asking, you guys know him way better than me.

I view him way differently, the guy is not afraid to go into the corner and get roughed up and come out with the puck, same thing with the front of the net; he plays a fearless game. While he may not be Matt Cooke when it comes to hitting he is not afraid to play physical, while Sutter totally is.
- nbartley9

He and Sutter have very similar games, from their defensive style, to their PK style, to their builds.

Neither one is physical in the traditional sense. Both can be very effective defensively through their own style of play.

Honqnvist is an underrated player, he'll be solid for the Pens.

So... I'm gonna bite, because I am damn curious after all this time.

What is your reason for the hatred of Sutter? It can't be just how he plays... theres far more deserving of scorn for disappointing, wimpy, half-assed, or lazy play...

Just gotta know man.
- Guile

I have a huge problem with people that do not work hard when they have the ability to be successful; and I feel like that attitude is infecting our entire locker room. He is the epitome of what is wrong with our team, he acts like just because his name is Sutter that's good enough he doesn't have to put in the effort. That's exactly like the Pens, that mindset of " we are the Pens, we are awesome no matter what; F hard work". Then he goes out and plays the way he did in the playoffs, that just enraged me even more to see what he is capable of and that the rest of the time he just doesn't give a flying rat crap. Nothing is worse than wasted talent, and I absolutely hate soft hockey players.

I will never forgive Josef Melichar for pointing to his shoulder after his surgery to avoid fighting when called out, I would run him over with my truck if I had the opportunity.

We need a 2C that can eventually slide down to 3C when Draisaitl is ready. That was not Sam Gagner so he gone, but were have a void right now, that's why I was asking, you guys know him way better than me.
- Jeropotato

Well we need a winger so not sure who you'd be willing to part with? Perron/yak? Obviously more to a deal for either but Sutter is a start

I have a huge problem with people that do not work hard when they have the ability to be successful; and I feel like that attitude is infecting our entire locker room. He is the epitome of what is wrong with our team, he acts like just because his name is Sutter that's good enough he doesn't have to put in the effort. That's exactly like the Pens, that mindset of " we are the Pens, we are awesome no matter what; F hard work". Then he goes out and plays the way he did in the playoffs, that just enraged me even more to see what he is capable of and that the rest of the time he just doesn't give a flying rat crap. Nothing is worse than wasted talent, and I absolutely hate soft hockey players.

I will never forgive Josef Melichar for pointing to his shoulder after his surgery to avoid fighting when called out, I would run him over with my truck if I had the opportunity.
- nbartley9

So... it was his laziness, and how he turned it on after he ass was on the trading block for the rumored Kesler deal?

Gotta say... bit disappointed. Was thinking he knocked up your sister and refused to pay child support or something Jerry Springer crazy.

That was... more understandable of a reason.

I have a huge problem with people that do not work hard when they have the ability to be successful; and I feel like that attitude is infecting our entire locker room. He is the epitome of what is wrong with our team, he acts like just because his name is Sutter that's good enough he doesn't have to put in the effort. That's exactly like the Pens, that mindset of " we are the Pens, we are awesome no matter what; F hard work". Then he goes out and plays the way he did in the playoffs, that just enraged me even more to see what he is capable of and that the rest of the time he just doesn't give a flying rat crap. Nothing is worse than wasted talent, and I absolutely hate soft hockey players.

I will never forgive Josef Melichar for pointing to his shoulder after his surgery to avoid fighting when called out, I would run him over with my truck if I had the opportunity.
- nbartley9

Can't be mad at you for that perception.

I have a huge problem with people that do not work hard when they have the ability to be successful; and I feel like that attitude is infecting our entire locker room. He is the epitome of what is wrong with our team, he acts like just because his name is Sutter that's good enough he doesn't have to put in the effort. That's exactly like the Pens, that mindset of " we are the Pens, we are awesome no matter what; F hard work". Then he goes out and plays the way he did in the playoffs, that just enraged me even more to see what he is capable of and that the rest of the time he just doesn't give a flying rat crap. Nothing is worse than wasted talent, and I absolutely hate soft hockey players.

I will never forgive Josef Melichar for pointing to his shoulder after his surgery to avoid fighting when called out, I would run him over with my truck if I had the opportunity.
- nbartley9

I don't think Sutter is particularly naturally gifted. What is his major skillset. He is "OK" at most things. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well we need a winger so not sure who you'd be willing to part with? Perron/yak? Obviously more to a deal for either but Sutter is a start
- dbell646

That one is tough. Problem is we need a stop gap more than anything and we probably only want to offer picks/prospects. Marc Arcobello is a good player, but a bit small for the Oilers....

Get used to it, because Spaling is the same way. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Spaling is similar to Sutter in that his defensive game is more about positioning, using his stick/reach, and reading plays than it is about physicality.
- hardnosed

Not saying one way is right or wrong. Just that Sutter's stat line of 70 hits last year is misleading.

That one is tough. Problem is we need a stop gap more than anything and we probably only want to offer picks/prospects. Marc Arcobello is a good player, but a bit small for the Oilers....
- Jeropotato

Might not be a deal to be had. Pens are looking for players to help now I don't think Arcobello solves any issues for us. I didn't realize Hall finished like 6th in scoring this year while missing some time. Pretty impressive!

I don't think Sutter is particularly naturally gifted. What is his major skillset. He is "OK" at most things. Nothing more, nothing less.
- 87_71_11_29

That's my point actually, he played hard in the playoffs and was hailed as being this great playoff performer; when in all actuality he was just playing hockey how hockey players should play hockey. He wasn't world beating but he was good, that's what makes me so insanely mad. That kind of crap rubs off on people and it shows.

I have no issues with the Downie types. I think they are necessary. I hope that he can still score some goals though. Biz well I just like reading his chirps on twitter
- dbell646

Same. I'm glad to have a few guys like that on the team barring that they can play hockey and score some goals. So Downie supposedly fits that bill. I don't want more Tanner Glass or Eric Godards. Another reason someone like Penner would still interest me.