The case against Johnny Oduya.

Honestly, I think Oduya will be dealt. Unless Q gets his way, I think it's Oduya. Why? 1. Leddy is RFA controlled. 2. Leddy is younger. 3. Hawks may think, right or wrong, that just like Oduya before coming here, they can get Leddy's game up to a level he can play with Hammer.

Remember before Oduya was a Hawk he was jettisoned from the Devils, a DEFENSIVE minded team, and then sent packing from Winnipeg. This guy had warts, had them exposed against Phoenix, and then took a HUGE step last year. Who's to say Leddy couldn't do the same? yes, Leddy has some MAJOR flaws. No question....but to assume Leddy can't do the same thing Oduya did and ramp up his game, is naïve. The only way Oduya stays OVER Leddy if Oduya is willing to take the SAME exact money or less then Leddy...which Bowman should have/probably has already explored with boy guys.

Trading Oduya makes sense. So does Sharp, but at this point, you dont' have enough offensive options to replace Sharp's numbers.

Oduya goes....they bring back Brookbank. If Leddy BOMBS Q still has a veteran option in Brookbank to play with Hammer come playoff time. Dont' laugh. Brookbank was SOLID with Keith in Seabrook's absence and then again against Minnesota. He can man that role.

What is unknown is the love for Rundblad Why is this guy here? He's blocking an ample spot for a Johns OR Dahlback to learn on the job. The sooner these next crop of D men get NHL experience the better. I don't Rundblad being in the long term plans of this team. You rarely hear about him. Where as Dahlback, Cleddening, and Johns are all getting hype.

Again...still waiting to see what way Bowman goes...
- SteveRain

Yeah, but you notice this Oduya departure means they turn to right handers to play with hammer, where he makes the move to the other side, and he is pretty much very comfortable where he is now....or moving Leddy into the top four....

@ESPNChiHawks: Teravainen playing wing in the scrimmage. Line of Teravainen-Rasmussen-Hartman.

Mike Halford ‏@HalfordPHT 5m
Florida could have a top-6 D of Campbell, Mitchell, Kulikov, Ekblad, Gudbranson and Olsen. That's...not too shabby.


Just think how much better they will look once they get Nick Leddy

@ESPNChiHawks: Teravainen playing wing in the scrimmage. Line of Teravainen-Rasmussen-Hartman.
- DarthKane

Wait... I thought Teravainen was a center?

Wait... I thought Teravainen was a center?
- Jocelyn26

Our hopes of Teravainen being the next 2C have been ruined!

@ESPNChiHawks: Teravainen playing wing in the scrimmage. Line of Teravainen-Rasmussen-Hartman.
- DarthKane

It is telling that he is on the left though... Most people say he would end up on the right since he is a Lefty shot. But it looks like they are trying to get him comfortable on the LW.

And thats to say he "couldn't" play center if needed. Just like how Shaw is a better fit as a wing, but he plays center...

@ESPNChiHawks: Teravainen playing wing in the scrimmage. Line of Teravainen-Rasmussen-Hartman.
- DarthKane

Any way to watch the scrimmage?

Mike Halford ‏@HalfordPHT 5m
Florida could have a top-6 D of Campbell, Mitchell, Kulikov, Ekblad, Gudbranson and Olsen. That's...not too shabby.


Just think how much better they will look once they get Nick Leddy
- FourFeathers773

That's also not too good. At least not yet. Lot of youth. Kulikov is their offensive minded guy whom most resembles Leddy vis-a-vis developmental curve. I do not see the common sense in wanting Leddy. Maybe Tallon likes Leddy's potential and it harkens to this now GM's days while working for the Blackhawks. Tallon was rumored hot for Teravainen, too. That is not going to happen. Fact is How Florida has some impressive youth at the defense and center positions. Of course the wild card is that it is the crazy Tallon who runs the show. But I just do not think anything involving Leddy and Florida is happening.

It is telling that he is on the left though... Most people say he would end up on the right since he is a Lefty shot. But it looks like they are trying to get him comfortable on the LW.

And thats to say he "couldn't" play center if needed. Just like how Shaw is a better fit as a wing, but he plays center...
- gnosox1986

wait....doesn't Sharp play LW?????????????? DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is telling that he is on the left though... Most people say he would end up on the right since he is a Lefty shot. But it looks like they are trying to get him comfortable on the LW.

And thats to say he "couldn't" play center if needed. Just like how Shaw is a better fit as a wing, but he plays center...
- gnosox1986

Sharp plays LW, just saying...

As you surely realize, Steve Rain, you are ruling as judge without considering the evidence in a complete, fair way. Your methodology is left wanting.

Rundblad plays defense and most young defensemen need few years worth of playing time to develop. Rundblad has not been afforded this opportunity. Rundblad will have a very short training camp period- of - time to put his game in order.

I will agree it is likely Rundblad is not ready nor capable of playing well enough, defensively, to sustain regular employment in Q's eyes. But can Rundblad play acceptable enough in Bowman's eyes? Is Rundblad going to see a whole lot of press box time or be rotated in similar to the Rosival/Brookbank duo last season.

One thing is clear, even if Rundblad doesn't get untracked here in Chicago. The kid has ability. He may be in over his head and truly needs to play regularly in thee AHL or back in the SEL

But give Rundblad an opportunity at least through training camp and maybe through the first quarter if the schedule to make his case. The evidence has yet to be given, Steve. You are more likely correct than Rundblad actually is not able to play well enough. Bowman brought him in and the kid probably will get an opportunity.,

Just do not know yet if he gets regular season gp.

It is telling that he is on the left though... Most people say he would end up on the right since he is a Lefty shot. But it looks like they are trying to get him comfortable on the LW.

And thats to say he "couldn't" play center if needed. Just like how Shaw is a better fit as a wing, but he plays center...
- gnosox1986

He was playing center before (that's why the tweet says "playing wing now"), so they must have him rotating. Hartman is a right wing only, so I assume for that combo TT would have to play left.

Sharp is still being used to promote the convention, at least through the official Blackhawks twitter, so I'm not sure I'd get your hopes up quite yet that he's gone.

Yeah, but you notice this Oduya departure means they turn to right handers to play with hammer, where he makes the move to the other side, and he is pretty much very comfortable where he is now....or moving Leddy into the top four....
- wiz1901

Wiz/Eli/Kwolf

Yeah, I am just trying to look at this realistically. To Eli's point, if they were to move Oduya or Leddy, and bring back Brookbank, I think Rozsival also has to go. I think/hope the Hawks would realize how badly Rozsival looked in that playoff run. To squeeze another year out of him, alla Handzus, is playing with fire. Flip Rozsival, take his money and pay a little less to Brookbank, say 1.5 for 2 years, and you know have a dependable D man to help guide a youngster OR be able to play top 4 minutes in a crunch like we saw when Seabrook was suspended.

I believe Hammer came in on the other side, so I wouldnt' think that transition would be too difficult for him. I understand the chemistry factor with Oduya. Fact is can they afford to pay another D man 5+ million? I think Oduya would easily get that on the open market, and high 4s, low 5 would be his "hometown discount".

As far as Leddy goes, I would argue outside of Seabrook he has the best offensive instincts on the team. More so then Keith, who seems to get himself caught in between or not able to get shots through.

Leddy is big risk to take playing in the top 4. However, so was ODuya who was BRUTAL and dominated vs a larger Phoenix team 2 years ago. I think Leddy could take a huge step forward with a stable partner like Hammer, and give the Hawks another option on the point on the PP.

Again...I would assume it's Oduya vs Leddy internally and very curious to see which side wins that battle. The fact Q moved Brookbank all the way from bench to partners with Keith, shows how little faith he has in Leddy. However, out of all the Bowman trades so far....Leddy is by far his biggest WIN. Hard to imagine he trades that with Leddy still being young and somewhat raw.

As you surely realize, Steve Rain, you are ruling as judge without considering the evidence in a complete, fair way. Your methodology is left wanting.

Rundblad plays defense and most young defensemen need few years worth of playing time to develop. Rundblad has not been afforded this opportunity. Rundblad will have a very short training camp period- of - time to put his game in order.

I will agree it is likely Rundblad is not ready nor capable of playing well enough, defensively, to sustain regular employment in Q's eyes. But can Rundblad play acceptable enough in Bowman's eyes? Is Rundblad going to see a whole lot of press box time or be rotated in similar to the Rosival/Brookbank duo last season.

One thing is clear, even if Rundblad doesn't get untracked here in Chicago. The kid has ability. He may be in over his head and truly needs to play regularly in thee AHL or back in the SEL

But give Rundblad an opportunity at least through training camp and maybe through the first quarter if the schedule to make his case. The evidence has yet to be given, Steve. You are more likely correct than Rundblad actually is not able to play well enough. Bowman brought him in and the kid probably will get an opportunity.,

Just do not know yet if he gets regular season gp.
- jhawk59

I saw a VERY limited sample size of Rundblad and I didn't see a thing to get excited about. In fact, that game against Buffalo right his arrival, he looked AWFUL. He was very noticeable in a bad way.

what I am pointing to is you have 6 d men right now ahead of him. 1, maybe 2 has to go. From there, you have an organization very high on Johns and Dahlback, Maybe even Cledenning. I just don't see a long term spot for Rundblad.

I also see a team who added an old player Q is familiar from his Avs days. Why do that? they have a ton of defensive depth now....quality wise? Probably not great, but quantity wise? Probably more so then upfront.

Again, I see Rundblad as what was a panic move by Bowman who may not have thought of Kostika would have been claimed and was forced to add somebody who could have played ASAP had a top 6 gone down late last year. Thankfully, that never happened.....but it's just very odd that while we ready media pieces on Cledenning, hear WGN talk up Dahlback, Johns....you hear crickets on Rundblad. Tells me, he's not in the long term plans.

Yeah, I am just trying to look at this realistically. To Eli's point, if they were to move Oduya or Leddy, and bring back Brookbank, I think Rozsival also has to go. I think/hope the Hawks would realize how badly Rozsival looked in that playoff run. To squeeze another year out of him, alla Handzus, is playing with fire. Flip Rozsival, take his money and pay a little less to Brookbank, say 1.5 for 2 years, and you know have a dependable D man to help guide a youngster OR be able to play top 4 minutes in a crunch like we saw when Seabrook was suspended.
- SteveRain

The key would be that Bowman has to move two of those contracts without bring any salary back, or at least as little as possible. Also, I'd be just fine with bring back Brookbank on a one year deal at $2 million rather than handing him a two year deal in order to keep as much cap flexibility as possible for next summer.

FORWARDS
Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Brandon Saad ($0.764m) / Brad Richards ($2.000m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Bryan Bickell ($4.000m) / Andrew Shaw ($2.000m) / Jeremy Morin ($0.800m)
Kris Versteeg ($2.200m) / Marcus Kruger ($1.325m) / Ben Smith ($1.500m)
Joakim Nordstrom ($0.617m) / Peter Regin ($0.650m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($4.100m)
Nick Leddy ($2.700m) / Brent Seabrook ($5.800m)
Klas Dahlbeck ($0.613m) / Sheldon Brookbank ($2.000m)
David Rundblad ($0.785m) /

GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($6.000m)
Antti Raanta ($0.750m)

BONUS OVERAGE
$60,000
------
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,977,628; BONUSES: $433,333
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,022,372

He was playing center before (that's why the tweet says "playing wing now"), so they must have him rotating. Hartman is a right wing only, so I assume for that combo TT would have to play left.

Sharp is still being used to promote the convention, at least through the official Blackhawks twitter, so I'm not sure I'd get your hopes up quite yet that he's gone.
- L_B_R

Get out your looking glasses, fans and see what is left on paper should either Oduya and or Sharp be moved.

Realistically behind Oduya is probably either Rosival or Brookbank, Leddy, Dahlbeck, johns. Strength only in numbers.

Behind Sharp is Morin, a pack of not ready for prime time kids and that is it. You just know Teravainen needs more strength to be effective enough in the NHL. Regin is meant to be a fill in and not an offensive player. Not a strength, just the opposite if Sharp goes before next summer.

I believe the discussion between Rain and wiz is a good summation. Oduya most likely candidate to be changing address.

Btw please hope no one continues the T Myers talk. He has potential but is in no way sensible addition here. He is a gamble for some team - I will grant that is possible. I would not go near Myers if I was a GM. But some GM may choose to go for it. Does the new Buffalo GM make it a palatable move?

The key would be that Bowman has to move two of those contracts without bring any salary back, or at least as little as possible. Also, I'd be just fine with bring back Brookbank on a one year deal at $2 million rather than handing him a two year deal in order to keep as much cap flexibility as possible for next summer.

FORWARDS
Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Brandon Saad ($0.764m) / Brad Richards ($2.000m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Bryan Bickell ($4.000m) / Andrew Shaw ($2.000m) / Jeremy Morin ($0.800m)
Kris Versteeg ($2.200m) / Marcus Kruger ($1.325m) / Ben Smith ($1.500m)
Joakim Nordstrom ($0.617m) / Peter Regin ($0.650m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Duncan Keith ($5.538m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($4.100m)
Nick Leddy ($2.700m) / Brent Seabrook ($5.800m)
Klas Dahlbeck ($0.613m) / Sheldon Brookbank ($2.000m)
David Rundblad ($0.785m) /

GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($6.000m)
Antti Raanta ($0.750m)

BONUS OVERAGE
$60,000
------
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,977,628; BONUSES: $433,333
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,022,372
- EKolb13

I'm OK with this, and I think you can also throw Nordstrom down in the minors as they will rotate Regin in to keep Richards fresh is my guess. That gives you almost 1.7 in cap space.

I'm OK with this, and I think you can also throw Nordstrom down in the minors as they will rotate Regin in to keep Richards fresh is my guess. That gives you almost 1.7 in cap space.
- SteveRain

The nice thing is that the Hawks do not have to carry Nordstrom full time. He's in the last year of his ELC, so he should be able to be sent down without having to pass through waivers. It would be nice to carry him during the long road trips like the circus road trip in November.

Again, I see Rundblad as what was a panic move by Bowman who may not have thought of Kostika would have been claimed and was forced to add somebody who could have played ASAP had a top 6 gone down late last year. Thankfully, that never happened.....but it's just very odd that while we ready media pieces on Cledenning, hear WGN talk up Dahlback, Johns....you hear crickets on Rundblad. Tells me, he's not in the long term plans.
- SteveRain

I'm with you here. We've shot posts back and forth about this in the past. I didn't see much of Rundblad's game that I really cared for in his little audition late last season. In the end, it just seemed like a knee-jerk reaction trade made by Bowman after losing Kostka on waivers.

Every time my mother in-law cooks something, i check the kitchen to confirm that she does own a salt shaker full of salt. Then i wonder how anyone can cook anything so bland.

Unbelievable, even though it happens all the time.

I saw a VERY limited sample size of Rundblad and I didn't see a thing to get excited about. In fact, that game against Buffalo right his arrival, he looked AWFUL. He was very noticeable in a bad way.

what I am pointing to is you have 6 d men right now ahead of him. 1, maybe 2 has to go. From there, you have an organization very high on Johns and Dahlback, Maybe even Cledenning. I just don't see a long term spot for Rundblad.

I also see a team who added an old player Q is familiar from his Avs days. Why do that? they have a ton of defensive depth now....quality wise? Probably not great, but quantity wise? Probably more so then upfront.

Again, I see Rundblad as what was a panic move by Bowman who may not have thought of Kostika would have been claimed and was forced to add somebody who could have played ASAP had a top 6 gone down late last year. Thankfully, that never happened.....but it's just very odd that while we ready media pieces on Cledenning, hear WGN talk up Dahlback, Johns....you hear crickets on Rundblad. Tells me, he's not in the long term plans.
- SteveRain

It is all about how much rope they are giving Rundblad. Does his performance mean he so to speak hangs himself on his own rope? Of course he would look bad last season. Young dman and had not received adequate playing time, much less hardly any TOI before the trade.

It is unlikely he passes his test in Chicago. Yes I was aware his arrival in Chicago likely was for the reasons how you explained. I am merely arguing that he has a lot of talent and I personally hope he surprises. The odds are against that happening. He does have some North American experience, but not enough to make a difference.

It is all about how much rope they are giving Rundblad. Does his performance mean he so to speak hangs himself on his own rope? Of course he would look bad last season. Young dman and had not received adequate playing time, much less hardly any TOI before the trade.

It is unlikely he passes his test in Chicago. Yes I was aware his arrival in Chicago likely was for the reasons how you explained. I am merely arguing that he has a lot of talent and I personally hope he surprises. The odds are against that happening. He does have some North American experience, but not enough to make a difference.
- jhawk59

Tons of talent? I would think if he were that talented Phoenix wouldn't have traded him, and he would have forced the Hawks hand to play him more then 1 game or the limited amount we saw last year.

I think he's a border line 7th D man until he proves otherwise. He has a low cap hit, or else he would be jettisoned ASAP.

I'm with you here. We've shot posts back and forth about this in the past. I didn't see much of Rundblad's game that I really cared for in his little audition late last season. In the end, it just seemed like a knee-jerk reaction trade made by Bowman after losing Kostka on waivers.
- EKolb13

Yeah....that buffalo game......

Tons of talent? I would think if he were that talented Phoenix wouldn't have traded him, and he would have forced the Hawks hand to play him more then 1 game or the limited amount we saw last year.

I think he's a border line 7th D man until he proves otherwise. He has a low cap hit, or else he would be jettisoned ASAP.
- SteveRain

Just because a player has talent and upside doesn't mean that it automatically translates into success...

To an extent but he over does it IMO. Always have. Always will. When the good times are rolling he's front and center. When they aren't, he's tucked away in the tower.

The man is a master at marketing. NO question about it. I just dont' like the guy, think he's a phony, and I'll leave it at that.

Glad 19/88 are here for the L.T, and find it hilarious and sad that people think and posted we should have traded Kane, or should trade kane down the road. Ummm....no.

We have seen a closer look at Toews WILL be compared to Kane. We haven't even seen all the tools this kid has, and the fact he's hell bent on improving every off season, you haven't heard a peep about his off ice issues in the past 2+ years vs other "core members", I think it's time EVERYONE moves on and accepts like most young adults the light bulb for Kane went off a lot later then say....Toews.

Give it 2-3 years and these deals will be an absolute steal for the Hawks. The only thing they lose out on, is IF they ever wanted to buy 1 or both out, the 44 million in bonus $$ they can't touch.
- SteveRain

Interesting. There's a page on whitesox.com where the SOX themselves, evaluate their top 20 prospects. It's brutally honest. I mean, they pull no punches on where these guys need to improve, what their weaknesses are. And it's damn refreshing.

I caught myself asking, would the McDonough-run Hawks EVER do this? Answer: no.

What's funny is, I know very few longtime fans who "appreciate" being told how wonderful everything is. I think part of that is, these guys paid their dues for decades watching a garbage team (for the most part) and now they;re like you know what, thanks, I'll enjoy this, but please stop telling me how great everything is, because I know how bad it can get.

And I think part of it is a broader appreciation of the rest of the league, the players who've come and gone, and the ability to separate the hype from the reality.

There ARE some newer fans who really yearn for knowledge of the game overall and don't get sucked in as much. And there are some older fans who lap up everything the organization has been putting down the last 6-7 years.

But . . . generally speaking it seems to be the newer fans who love Bowman and McDonough no matter what.