Again...you just go back to points...that's not what it's all about. I'd rather have Henrik Zetterberg too.

And the fact that he is 22 means nothing. He's either elite or he's not. Same with the fact that he's the apparently the best LW in the game. There's still a TON of players that Mac T would deal in a heartbeat for Hall, thus making him not elite IMO.
- The-O-G

The fact that he's 22 has a lot to bear on the convo of whether he's elite, mostly by methodology.

Think about the players that are under 25 you'd be excluding by talking about "career all-star appearances". No matter what you think about Hall, It's a poor metric for talking about who's among the best of the best right now.

Well it depends on the situation....am I trying to win the cup? Am I the Oilers currently? Am I compiling a team for one year? One game?

Age is obviously the biggest factor. For the next 3-4 years I would rather have Zetterberg. But I understand why the Oilers wouldn't do the deal straight up.
- The-O-G

Elite should not be a function of age or contract status.
You are are different team and need to pick a player to go into the playoffs with. Would you pick Hall or Zetterberg. I would actually pick Hall personally. But that is the way you need to think about it.

I think that if you're talking about the top 3-5 players at a given position, you're talking about who's elite. Maybe I cast a wider net than others, but that's what I'd call elite personally.

1 Crosby
2 Ovechkin
3 Malkin
4 Getlaf
5 Perry
6 Kopitar
7 Datsyuk
8 Tavares
9 Stamkos
10 Lundquist
11 Price
12 Weber
13 Doughty
14 Keith
15 Pietrangelo
16 Kane
17 Toews
18 Benn
19 Gaudreau
20 Rask
21 Bergeron
22 Seguin
23 MacKinnon
24 Subban
25 Suter
26 Giordano
27 Jankowski
28 Bennett
29 Monahan
30 Engellend

EDIT: For the record, these were all off the top of my head and are not in any order.
- The-O-G

If we're talking about the Oilers right now, I wouldn't trade Hall for any of the flames listed , any of the 30+ guys listed, and likely not for a centre like Seguin, Bergeron or MacKinnon.

But pretty fair list.

1 Crosby
2 Ovechkin
3 Malkin
4 Getlaf
5 Perry
6 Kopitar
7 Datsyuk
8 Tavares
9 Stamkos
10 Lundquist
11 Price
12 Weber
13 Doughty
14 Keith
15 Pietrangelo
16 Kane
17 Toews
18 Benn
19 Gaudreau
20 Rask
21 Bergeron
22 Seguin
23 MacKinnon
24 Subban
25 Suter
26 Giordano
27 Jankowski
28 Bennett
29 Monahan
30 Engellend

EDIT: For the record, these were all off the top of my head and are not in any order.
- The-O-G

echl fodder

I think that if you're talking about the top 3-5 players at a given position, you're talking about who's elite. Maybe I cast a wider net than others, but that's what I'd call elite personally.
- Morris

I wouldn't say at each position. A center can easily go to the wing and a left wing can easily go to a right wing. However, a center is more valuable to a team than a winger. More defensive responsibilities is the big thing and very rarely a winger moves to play center. Therefor they have more of an impact on the team.

I would put hall in the top 20 forwards in the NHL. Maybe the top 15. Not the top 9. Maybe next year. Maybe in two years. or Maybe never. who knows. Right now he is not in the top 9.

(not that he is elite) But Cammi is listed as a center but plays left wing.

I said that crosby is a better player than Ovi for sure.

I was thinking more from a resume standpoint.

3 hart trophys versus 2
8 All star teams versus 4
Calder Trophy
Equal for Lester B. Pearson Award/Ted Lindsay Award
Points are about the same
422 goals versus 274 goals

The stanely cup is the big thing missing on Ovi's resume which is a team success thing.

I would 100% have Sid on my team before Ovi.

As for Hall. If you have one season to play would you pick Hall over any of the players I listed?
- tmurph

The cup is a huge factor. So is the fact that he's been to the finals twice. Also, the 2 gold medals are big as well.

The goals are nice butfugit.

What do you expect with all the Oilers fans in here?
- IggyOnly

If we're talking about the Oilers right now, I wouldn't trade Hall for any of the flames listed , any of the 30+ guys listed, and likely not for a centre like Seguin, Bergeron or MacKinnon.

But pretty fair list.
- Morris

The Flames guy's were just jokes.....Seguin, Bergeron and MacKinnon are debatable, although IMO I would make the trade.

I think the only +30 guys on there are Keith and Datsyuk. I would trade Hall for Keith, probably not Datsyuk though although it would be tempting hahaha

Edit: Lundquist is over 30 as well, but I would trade Hall for Lundqvist

I think that if you're talking about the top 3-5 players at a given position, you're talking about who's elite. Maybe I cast a wider net than others, but that's what I'd call elite personally.
- Morris

Hall's goal and "1st assist" rates at even strength make him elite offensively for sure.

So...if Hall was on your roster and you had the opportunity to trade straight up for Zetterberg you would do that deal?
- Jeropotato

As usual I think you're missing the point.

Hall's goal and "1st assist" rates at even strength make him elite offensively for sure.
- Nucker101

e·lite
əˈlēt,āˈlēt
noun
1.
a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities.

Honestly....there are few "elite" players in my mind.

Toews, Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Doughty, Weber, Lundqvist, Price........that's probably it for me.

Did mact tell you this?
Your conjecture doesnt actually count as a solid retort.

Id say there's a very small group of players hed trade hall for. Very small.

And yes, im sure theres LOTS of players YOU'D rather have.
- hugefemale dog77

Would you trade Hall for Stamkos straight up?

Would you trade Hall for Stamkos straight up?
- TandA4Flames

Would you???????

Or is this some sort of trick question

e·lite
əˈlēt,āˈlēt
noun
1.
a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities.

Honestly....there are few "elite" players in my mind.

Toews, Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Doughty, Weber, Lundqvist, Price........that's probably it for me.
- The-O-G

I did say "offensively" you (frank)ing bastard.

The production at even strength is right up there with anyone not named Crosby. He's actually been right there in the 2nd tier over the past 2 seasons with the others getting mentioned in this thread.

Kesler > Janitor
- Nucker101

nice avatar

Would you trade Hall for Stamkos straight up?
- TandA4Flames

Of course...but their cap hits will be really different in 2016.

The fact that he's 22 has a lot to bear on the convo of whether he's elite, mostly by methodology.

Think about the players that are under 25 you'd be excluding by talking about "career all-star appearances". No matter what you think about Hall, It's a poor metric for talking about who's among the best of the best right now.
- Morris

Ok Hall is good, could maybe become elite one day. I just think we are all watering down the word elite. It's like those (frank)ing parents that want every child to be special and get a frickin ribbon. To me elite is a player that the team would be nothing without.

Upper Echelon

Crosby
Malkin

Ovechkin (lack of playoff success and recent play has him declining)

Lower, but still elite players who define their team
Toews
Stamkos
Tavares (NYI are nothing without him, would be better on a better team)

There are a couple d men

Doughty
Weber

Keith
Chara (star power is beginning to decline)

And a couple goalies

Lundquist
Rask
Quick
Price


Even this list seems watered down to me, I just don't think elite should be thrown around for any player. If Edmonton becomes a consistent playoff contender, and Hall is a big reason for it then you can go ahead and call him elite. Right now he's just a guy that scores points on a poopty team

Would you???????

Or is this some sort of trick question
- The-O-G

Ya but Hall has brought the oilers to greatness. Done so much for that Team. Since making the team they finished 7th! oh wait. That was their lowest draft pick.

Oh the poopty teams from when Hall was drafted.
Toronto - Made the Playoffs
Florida - Still suck
Columbus - Made the Playoffs
NYI - Made the playoffs
Tampa - Made the PLayoffs
Carolina - I actually don't know off the top of my head.

So all these teams that were poopty since 2010 have made strides with the exception of florida.

I would put the Avs in the same boat as the oilers but look at what they have done with there team. That is how you do a rebuild.

I did say "offensively" you (frank)ing bastard.

The production at even strength is right up there with anyone not named Crosby. He's actually been right there in the 2nd tier over the past 2 seasons with the others getting mentioned in this thread.
- Nucker101

hahaha......I try to not listen to the things you say......

Ok Hall is good, could maybe become elite one day. I just think we are all watering down the word elite. It's like those (frank)ing parents that want every child to be special and get a frickin ribbon. To me elite is a player that the team would be nothing without.

Upper Echelon

Crosby
Malkin

Ovechkin (lack of playoff success and recent play has him declining)

Lower, but still elite players who define their team
Toews
Stamkos
Tavares (NYI are nothing without him, would be better on a better team)

There are a couple d men

Doughty
Weber

Keith
Chara (star power is beginning to decline)

And a couple goalies

Lundquist
Rask
Quick
Price


Even this list seems watered down to me, I just don't think elite should be thrown around for any player. If Edmonton becomes a consistent playoff contender, and Hall is a big reason for it then you can go ahead and call him elite. Right now he's just a guy that scores points on a poopty team
- Saskabush

Agreed...


Is this what your wrote your essay on?

hahaha......I try to not listen to the things you say......
- The-O-G

This explains so much.....

I also left Kessel off of the list.....he's pretty much in the exact same boat as Hallsy-Beauty.

I also left Kessel off of the list.....he's pretty much in the exact same boat as Hallsy-Beauty.
- The-O-G

I thought it was a list of players, not gods.

Would you trade Hall for Stamkos straight up?
- TandA4Flames

9 times outta ten yes. But id like to find out stamkos posession stats. (too lazy) does he drive the play like hall does, or is he more of a lethal one time while st. Louis was the possession/set up guy