Change of pace -- If Dumoulin and/or Pouliot do not get significant time in the NHL this season, I'll say that we lost the Jordan Staal trade. Even if they pan out in the long run...that will mean 3 years went by until the biggest pieces of the deal were used. And that's not to say they are bad pieces, but maybe it would have been best to draft a forward at 8 overall who would already be on the team.

I can't resist...

From the album: Timeline Photos
By Pittsburgh Penguins
What a beautiful sight! Welcome back to the ice, Pascal Dupuis!



It’s been five months since Duper underwent knee surgery. He has now progressed to the next step in his rehab, which is taking the ice. More → http://pens.pe/Ucy0u3

Woohoo... unbanned... no more making fun of EK's trade rumors for me >_>

Crosby's line hasn't played a shutdown role at all. Just so happens that the lines other teams want to match up against Crosby are also that team's best possession lines. Applies to Giroux's line for Philly, Stepan's line for NY, Bergeron's line for Boston, Dubinsky's line for CBJ, etc.

Put it this way, no one was asking Crosby to go out and shut down Bergeron, it was the other way around. But by looking at only advanced stats, that would be the conclusion reached despite its lack of validity.

The game has changed - it's now more about puck possession as a defensive tool than it is about having a shutdown line, and when it's not about puck possession it's about playing a box in one with your center hassling the crap out of the other teams' center (Bergeron, Dubinsky, Coutourier), and those types of guys aren't typically long-term 3rd line centers, and they are much more expensive than what Sutter will be.

And I though Bylsma didn't match lines?!?

Crosby's line hasn't played a shutdown role at all. Just so happens that the lines other teams want to match up against Crosby are also that team's best possession lines. Applies to Giroux's line for Philly, Stepan's line for NY, Bergeron's line for Boston, Dubinsky's line for CBJ, etc.

Put it this way, no one was asking Crosby to go out and shut down Bergeron, it was the other way around. But by looking at only advanced stats, that would be the conclusion reached despite its lack of validity.

The game has changed - it's now more about puck possession as a defensive tool than it is about having a shutdown line, and when it's not about puck possession it's about playing a box in one with your center hassling the crap out of the other teams' center (Bergeron, Dubinsky, Coutourier), and those types of guys aren't typically long-term 3rd line centers, and they are much more expensive than what Sutter will be.

And I though Bylsma didn't match lines?!?
- hardnosed

I am pretty sure I read even before the last season on Crosby being in the shutdown role. Whether it was by Dan's design or just the other team matching onto him, he was still performing the shutdown role.

Woohoo... unbanned... no more making fun of EK's trade rumors for me >_>
- Guile

Congrats!

Change of pace -- If Dumoulin and/or Pouliot do not get significant time in the NHL this season, I'll say that we lost the Jordan Staal trade. Even if they pan out in the long run...that will mean 3 years went by until the biggest pieces of the deal were used. And that's not to say they are bad pieces, but maybe it would have been best to draft a forward at 8 overall who would already be on the team.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Neither of them are going to get significant time in the NHL this season barring injuries.

Neither would Forsberg, Girgensons, or Grigorenko if they were playing here.

Pouliot isn't even 21 yet. He'll be more valuable than Staal on his own given time.

Crosby's line hasn't played a shutdown role at all. Just so happens that the lines other teams want to match up against Crosby are also that team's best possession lines. Applies to Giroux's line for Philly, Stepan's line for NY, Bergeron's line for Boston, Dubinsky's line for CBJ, etc.

Put it this way, no one was asking Crosby to go out and shut down Bergeron, it was the other way around. But by looking at only advanced stats, that would be the conclusion reached despite its lack of validity.

The game has changed - it's now more about puck possession as a defensive tool than it is about having a shutdown line, and when it's not about puck possession it's about playing a box in one with your center hassling the crap out of the other teams' center (Bergeron, Dubinsky, Coutourier), and those types of guys aren't typically long-term 3rd line centers, and they are much more expensive than what Sutter will be.

And I though Bylsma didn't match lines?!?
- hardnosed

Yeah, they did. Advanced stats and watching the games. This last year Disco matched lines making it even more obvious at home games.

Woohoo... unbanned... no more making fun of EK's trade rumors for me >_>
- Guile

welcome back, neighbor

I am pretty sure I read even before the last season on Crosby being in the shutdown role. Whether it was by Dan's design or just the other team matching onto him, he was still performing the shutdown role.
- Guile

I'm pretty sure you read it here if you read it at all, and it's an argument based on QOC only, not reality.

Like I said, when the Penguins play Boston, the Penguins were not putting Crosby out against Bergeron to shut Bergeron's line down. The Bruins were putting Bergeron out to shut Crosby down. Do you disagree?

Yeah, they did. Advanced stats and watching the games. This last year Disco matched lines making it even more obvious at home games.
- Topshelf Mountain

Then I'll ask you the same question - do you believe that when the Penguins played the Flyers, it was Dan Bylsma putting Crosby out against Giroux to shut Giroux's line down, or that it was the Flyers putting out Giroux to shut Crosby's line down?

I'm pretty sure you read it here if you read it at all, and it's an argument based on QOC only, not reality.

Like I said, when the Penguins play Boston, the Penguins were not putting Crosby out against Bergeron to shut Bergeron's line down. The Bruins were putting Bergeron out to shut Crosby down. Do you disagree?
- hardnosed

Can't say I read on this site almost ever before midway through last season, so no dice there to discredit me.

However, you are arguing something that does not make sense. It does not matter if Crosby was matched up AGAINST the opposing team's top line in their shutdown role or if they matched up against him. That still puts him in a shutdown role as well.
You can't have both top lines up against each other and only 1 counting as a shutdown if both are trying to beat the other. Its a shutdown attempt both ways, its just one is more successful than the other, which Crosby EXCELLED at.

However, you are arguing something that does not make sense. It does not matter if Crosby was matched up AGAINST the opposing team's top line in their shutdown role or if they matched up against him. That still puts him in a shutdown role as well.
You can't have both top lines up against each other and only 1 counting as a shutdown if both are trying to beat the other. Its a shutdown attempt both ways, its just one is more successful than the other, which Crosby EXCELLED at.
- Guile

It's not a shutdown attempt both ways, because you and I both know that Bylsma (and any coach) would prefer to get Crosby away from Bergeron, whereas Bergeron vs. Crosby is exactly what Julien wants.

It's not a shutdown attempt both ways, because you and I both know that Bylsma (and any coach) would prefer to get Crosby away from Bergeron, whereas Bergeron vs. Crosby is exactly what Julien wants.
- hardnosed

So... NHL MVP amount of points, while being "shutdown" and in turn, also shutting down their top line since hes scoring left and right on them... is not a shutdown role for Crosby as well?

You are making the shutdown role a very hard definition and one way street... You can say Crosby got "forced" into the role, Dan didn't match him up, it was not planned, whatever I am more than ok with agreeing that Dan did not intend it. However, he still played the minutes against the lines that would make him as a shutdown center.