Malkin should live on the right circle/half wall area. Crosby down low on the strong side. That should be non-negotiable.
- Ryan_Wilson

not having neal to make the coach douby himself on where to place players will help... I wonder how hornqvist looks on the second unit. second unit, sutter/hornqvuist/dupius/bennett letang despres?

I hear you but while he wont have orpik/engellend and hopefully less scuds, he will have several rookie defensemen. I agree with your assessment that they will be a step up from last year, but Letang is still gonna have to be the man making the right calls, which he needs to do better.
- ChrisMS

He will have calls to make now though. That hasn't been there. He has waited for things to develop that just weren't going to develop. I still maintain that he is not a cerebral player and has more of that pond hockey type of mentality but reading and reacting with puck support should fit into his strengths.

not having neal to make the coach douby himself on where to place players will help... I wonder how hornqvist looks on the second unit. second unit, sutter/hornqvuist/dupius/bennett letang despres?
- ChrisMS

I would put Hornqvist on the 1st unit in Kunitz's spot, plus he is a right handed forward which is a rare species on the Penguins power play.

Hornqvist excels at scoring goals by the crease, no better time for that than the power play.

would you trade a roster player, a first, and a prospect for him? say 1st rounder, harrington/despres, and sutter? thats the least it would cost. steep.
- ChrisMS

Depends on several things. First and foremost is the contract Sutter ends up getting. If we lock him up long term to 3.5 of lower, then I'm out of this trade. If he goes over 4, or if he ends up only getting a two year contract I'm back on trying to make this deal because with our new found depth this year, Sutter is expendable.

Second, if its Despres, Samuelsson, or Harrington, I'm ok with it. I see Despres as being our most expendable top notch D prospect because he never really panned out in our system, but his potential is still palpable. I think teams would still love to add him and a change of scenery and system would do wonders for his career. I don't think Samuelsson has enough value to get this done, and I'd rather not get rid of Harrington. But when its all said and done, we have more D prospects than we have room on our roster for moving forward. At some point we're going to have to trade at least one.

The pick is the worst part of this deal and what makes it such a huge gamble. We need forwards in our pipeline, but at the same time, the time to do that was a few years ago when Shero was either trading those picks or using them on D men. Sid and Geno are aging. What are the realistic chances that a forward prospect can seriously help us out while Sid and Geno's window are still open.

In short, its a huge gamble. If a trade of Sutter, Despres, and a 1st is made and Ryan resigns, I think most will agree that it was well worth it. If he walks, it will be seen as blunder of seismic proportions even if we win the cup. It comes down to GMJR's cojones and what he thinks the realistic chances of retaining Bobby Ryan are.

Just remember that any trade with Ottawa involves a cheapskate owner who is going to be looking for dirt cheap assets (IE draft picks/high end prospects).

Just remember that any trade with Ottawa involves a cheapskate owner who is going to be looking for dirt cheap assets (IE draft picks/high end prospects).
- Ryan_Wilson

Yeah you're right. It probably won't happen. Just like with Evander Kane, there's likely many other teams that can up our offer, and Ryan doesn't have a NTC to use as leverage. At the end of the day, Sutter, Despres, and a low 1st just isn't that appealing when you're talking about a guy like Ryan.

But you never know what will happen when GMs start talking

Just remember that any trade with Ottawa involves a cheapskate owner who is going to be looking for dirt cheap assets (IE draft picks/high end prospects).
- Ryan_Wilson

IMO pens aren't doing anything until this development camp is over

He will have calls to make now though. That hasn't been there. He has waited for things to develop that just weren't going to develop. I still maintain that he is not a cerebral player and has more of that pond hockey type of mentality but reading and reacting with puck support should fit into his strengths.
- Ryan_Wilson

huh. I see what your saying. Doesn't feel right. I guess I see a top level d-man having the skills to dictate the play and not rely on the rest of the team doing what their supposed to. I know that to a certain extent that is required by all players, but Letang is paid like a guy who should make those around him better. But now that we have this conversation, it seems when he tries to do that he flubs.

With my age growing in numbers and my play dropping in quality I think I'm understanding the uber-talented players better. The normal league I play in I have to keep making simple plays more and more just to keep my place on the team. (Talent no longer there) When I get picked up for a game in the league below ours I start thinking I'm 25 again and do the whole dangle and skating thing. I have way more turnovers playing like that! Someone posted earlier how Letang will create three scoring chances but give up two spectacularly, and I think it all relates. If he's able to simplify his game under this new system he's gonna be going for the Norris again.

I would put Hornqvist on the 1st unit in Kunitz's spot, plus he is a right handed forward which is a rare species on the Penguins power play.

Hornqvist excels at scoring goals by the crease, no better time for that than the power play.
- Ryan_Wilson

I really like that idea. A new coach really opens the door to breaking down the previous established stuff and maybe kunitz wont be on the top powerplay.

huh. I see what your saying. Doesn't feel right. I guess I see a top level d-man having the skills to dictate the play and not rely on the rest of the team doing what their supposed to. I know that to a certain extent that is required by all players, but Letang is paid like a guy who should make those around him better. But now that we have this conversation, it seems when he tries to do that he flubs.
- ChrisMS

In most "systems" of breaking the puck out you would be absolutely correct. However, Bylsma had the wingers flat footed at the opposite blue line. Without player movement it really doesn't matter what the puck carrier is doing if the opposition is covering the flat footed players.

The Penguins intentionally played for tip ins to the zone instead of carry ins. Weird really.

Yeah you're right. It probably won't happen. Just like with Evander Kane, there's likely many other teams that can up our offer, and Ryan doesn't have a NTC to use as leverage. At the end of the day, Sutter, Despres, and a low 1st just isn't that appealing when you're talking about a guy like Ryan.

But you never know what will happen when GMs start talking
- Victoro311

I get a feeling that either pouliot or kapanan plus a 1st would be starting point and players on elc are just so valuable. plus we again dont have a 3rd rounder. losing a first makes it another bare bones draft.

In most "systems" of breaking the puck out you would be absolutely correct. However, Bylsma had the wingers flat footed at the opposite blue line. Without player movement it really doesn't matter what the puck carrier is doing if the opposition is covering the flat footed players.

The Penguins intentionally played for tip ins to the zone instead of carry ins. Weird really.
- Ryan_Wilson

weird considering crosby/malkin/letang could dance their way past any one maybe two defenders? It does bring back nightmares of malkin/crosby trying to beat 3-5 guys cause nobody was there to lend a hand.

Just remember that any trade with Ottawa involves a cheapskate owner who is going to be looking for dirt cheap assets (IE draft picks/high end prospects).
- Ryan_Wilson

We're going to need a cost per point graph up in here

weird considering crosby/malkin/letang could dance their way past any one maybe two defenders? It does bring back nightmares of malkin/crosby trying to beat 3-5 guys cause nobody was there to lend a hand.
- ChrisMS

Special players can do it on their own in isolated events but to make habit of it is really poor planning.

Watch how much room these guys get with 10-15 foot passes that include give and gos with speed. They will create 2 on 1's all over the ice.

Plus the defense will be joining up on the rush as trailers. Lots to like conceptually moving forward.

I get a feeling that either pouliot or kapanan plus a 1st would be starting point and players on elc are just so valuable. plus we again dont have a 3rd rounder. losing a first makes it another bare bones draft.
- ChrisMS

And I agree that that is not worth it. Ryan was the only rental that I could really think of that would be worth pursuing to fill a top 6 roll for a cup run. I have no interest in another Lee Stempniak who would be better served as a third liner than on Sid or Geno's wing.

As I see it we only have two options:

Make a hockey trade, which is unlikely because we can't really put together an appealing package unless its for a guy with a NTC that can essentially choose us as his destination.

Or stay put and try to manage with this gaping hole in the top 6, which is what I think we'll have to do. I really don't see Kapenen being ready this year. Maybe another prospect will surprise? I doubt it.

We're going to need a cost per point graph up in here
- BulliesPhan87

I'm sure Mr. Yost has one in his database haha

Malkin should live on the right circle/half wall area. Crosby down low on the strong side. That should be non-negotiable.
- Ryan_Wilson

With Ehrhoff on the right, and Letang (yep, Letang - gotta have that weak side one timer available) on the left side. Hornqvist in front of the net.

For the first time in a long time, it's a PP that makes sense in terms of player strengths and which way they hold the stick. Nothing more frustrating than seeing Kunitz and Neal on the left side being unable to get decent shots off.

I'm sure Mr. Yost has one in his database haha
- Ryan_Wilson

I hope he archived the "pre/post Olympic break win% vs. Olympians on roster" page as well, I think the Sens took it off their site. Hockey deserves that kind of groundbreaking analysis.

Special players can do it on their own in isolated events but to make habit of it is really poor planning.

Watch how much room these guys get with 10-15 foot passes that include give and gos with speed. They will create 2 on 1's all over the ice.

Plus the defense will be joining up on the rush as trailers. Lots to like conceptually moving forward.
- Ryan_Wilson

maybe they can bring ryan whitney back to be letangs personal coach.
"Kris, this is how you backdoor it with crosby" um. philly fans would love that one. doesnt those 10-15 foot passes leave teams open to pick-offs? That reminds me. PREDICTION. Brian Gibbons leads the league in SHG.

And I agree that that is not worth it. Ryan was the only rental that I could really think of that would be worth pursuing to fill a top 6 roll for a cup run. I have no interest in another Lee Stempniak who would be better served as a third liner than on Sid or Geno's wing.

As I see it we only have two options:

Make a hockey trade, which is unlikely because we can't really put together an appealing package unless its for a guy with a NTC that can essentially choose us as his destination.

Or stay put and try to manage with this gaping hole in the top 6, which is what I think we'll have to do. I really don't see Kapenen being ready this year. Maybe another prospect will surprise? I doubt it.
- Victoro311

I don't see a gaping hole.

Just remember that any trade with Ottawa involves a paranoid owner who is going to be looking for documentary evidence that Matt Cooke intentionally shred EK's achilles.
- Ryan_Wilson

FTFY

maybe they can bring ryan whitney back to be letangs personal coach.
"Kris, this is how you backdoor it with crosby" um. philly fans would love that one. doesnt those 10-15 foot passes leave teams open to pick-offs? That reminds me. PREDICTION. Brian Gibbons leads the league in SHG.
- ChrisMS

No more than a 100 foot pass.

You can fake a 10 foot pass and take another step and chances are high the other player will have shaken his defender and the angle of the pass will be changed.

You can't really effectively fake a stretch pass.

In most "systems" of breaking the puck out you would be absolutely correct. However, Bylsma had the wingers flat footed at the opposite blue line. Without player movement it really doesn't matter what the puck carrier is doing if the opposition is covering the flat footed players.

The Penguins intentionally played for tip ins to the zone instead of carry ins. Weird really.
- Ryan_Wilson

Yeah... the stretch pass tip in worked sometimes with Crosby's line, because Sid's quickness, and Kunitz/Dupuis are great fore checkers. Even Gibbons with his speed could make it work.

But for the other three lines, especially the bottom 2, it was useless. You get the puck deep and only have at the most 2 forwards going after it, because the "tipper" was flatfooted with his back towards the zone. At best, you had a 50/50 chance of getting the puck back.

I can't remember the Bob Johnoson quote, but it was something like "Why go to all that work to get the puck if you are just going to give it back?".

I don't see a gaping hole.
- Topshelf Mountain

Nor do I. And apparently, neither does the FO.

It's kind of getting old talking about it, actually.

Reality is that between Duper/Bennett/Kapanen/Downie, the Penguins have a ton more options for the top 6 than they did last year.

I mean, this time last year folks were angling for a pipe dream winger because they wanted Jokinen centering the third line, thinking he wasn't good enough to ride with Malkin.