Ramsey, Straka, and Tippett were not part of the Stanley Cup champs in '92. They joined the team the following season. Daniels didn't even play in the playoffs that season and just two games the entire year. Needham played just five games in the postseason while Jock Callender played in 12. Tags didn't play any at all. You didn't include Jan Hrdina, Trottier, Bourque, Stanton, and Paek all of whom played in at least 19 games.
- acdc1206

I'm glad someone is paying attention around here...sure wasn't me.

I did a cut and paste...and was really only looking at the top two lines

I think the point I was trying to make is still as valid though.

As much as I have argued for the idea of standing pat when it comes to making a trade for a top 6 forward...you guys should realize it has nothing to do with an unhealthy obsession about what line Pascal Dupuis plays on (really -- makes no difference to me)

I have simply tried to point out the logic flaw...that we NEED a top 6 winger in his spot...to win a cup.

That said...and although we never know what to believe or not believe when it comes to GM speak...this is interesting and encouraging

http://penguins.nhl.com/c...332&cmpid=pit-fb-penguins

As much as I have argued for the idea of standing pat when it comes to making a trade for a top 6 forward...you guys should realize it has nothing to do with an unhealthy obsession about what line Pascal Dupuis plays on (really -- makes no difference to me)

I have simply tried to point out the logic flaw...that we NEED a top 6 winger in his spot...to win a cup.

That said...and although we never know what to believe or not believe when it comes to GM speak...this is interesting and encouraging

http://penguins.nhl.com/c...332&cmpid=pit-fb-penguins
- icedog97

I would love if Kapanen can make the team this yr. Im not in love with the idea of trading what little we have for Kane or whoever.

If Kapanen makes the squad I assume the lines would be:

14-87-Kap
BB-71-PH
9-Sutter-Downie
Comean-Goc-Spaling/Megna

Not bad, but is Sutter even needed with this roster?

I would love if Kapanen can make the team this yr. Im not in love with the idea of trading what little we have for Kane or whoever.

If Kapanen makes the squad I assume the lines would be:

14-87-Kap
BB-71-PH
9-Sutter-Downie
Comean-Goc-Spaling/Megna

Not bad, but is Sutter even needed with this roster?
- sammy87

No F Sutter he blows.

I would love if Kapanen can make the team this yr. Im not in love with the idea of trading what little we have for Kane or whoever.

If Kapanen makes the squad I assume the lines would be:

14-87-Kap
BB-71-PH
9-Sutter-Downie
Comean-Goc-Spaling/Megna

Not bad, but is Sutter even needed with this roster?
- sammy87

That is probably the same case Rutherford and company are making to Sutter's agent. Go ahead look for offers from other teams and see if you get what you think you are going to get because if you do leave, we are comfortable with what we have in the bottom 6. Nobody is giving Sutter a qualifying offer over $3.4 million and giving up the 1st and 3rd rd draft picks that go with it. And if he somehow does get a higher offer, I'm sure the Pens would be more than happy to accept the draft pick compensation.

That is probably the same case Rutherford and company are making to Sutter's agent. Go ahead look for offers from other teams and see if you get what you think you are going to get because if you do leave, we are comfortable with what we have in the bottom 6. Nobody is giving Sutter a qualifying offer over $3.4 million and giving up the 1st and 3rd rd draft picks that go with it. And if he somehow does get a higher offer, I'm sure the Pens would be more than happy to accept the draft pick compensation.
- PensFan1103

That's certainly leverage that the Pens have. Keep low-balling him. I would really love one of the lesser teams to give us their draft picks. That'd be a steal for Sutter....especially with this particularly deep draft class coming up. That's why I don't see anyone really going after Sutter.

The only thing is that we are counting on Comeau, Downie, Spaling, etc. They aren't really question marks but at the same time we haven't seen them in this team/system. I do think Goc or Spaling can hold down 3rd line C and plenty of AHL guys appear ready for the 4th line. That's a pretty nice backup plan.

That's certainly leverage that the Pens have. Keep low-balling him. I would really love one of the lesser teams to give us their draft picks. That'd be a steal for Sutter....especially with this particularly deep draft class coming up. That's why I don't see anyone really going after Sutter.

The only thing is that we are counting on Comeau, Downie, Spaling, etc. They aren't really question marks but at the same time we haven't seen them in this team/system. I do think Goc or Spaling can hold down 3rd line C and plenty of AHL guys appear ready for the 4th line. That's a pretty nice backup plan.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Yeah, if someone gave Sutter an offer sheet that gave the Pens a 1st and a 3rd, I would be totally comfortable with Goc as 3rd line center.

That's certainly leverage that the Pens have. Keep low-balling him. I would really love one of the lesser teams to give us their draft picks. That'd be a steal for Sutter....especially with this particularly deep draft class coming up. That's why I don't see anyone really going after Sutter.

The only thing is that we are counting on Comeau, Downie, Spaling, etc. They aren't really question marks but at the same time we haven't seen them in this team/system. I do think Goc or Spaling can hold down 3rd line C and plenty of AHL guys appear ready for the 4th line. That's a pretty nice backup plan.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

We haven't seen anyone on this team in this system yet, so they are going to have just as much of a learning curve as the rest of the guys, going from the Disco Dan Stretch Pass to Johnstons Group Attack/Puck Support.

I'm perfectly comfortable without Sutter in the lineup. With some of the contracts thrown out there for more productive players, anything over 2 mil a year is overspending for him. He requires way too much protection and doesn't put up the points to earn more than that.

Sutter would get 4mil easy on the open market. Same thing happens every year...player signs, everyone says he's overpaid, free agency hits and then everyone forgets at the bargain their player signed for.

Sutter would get 4mil easy on the open market. Same thing happens every year...player signs, everyone says he's overpaid, free agency hits and then everyone forgets at the bargain their player signed for.
- jchst22

It's not how this year is playing out though. Heatley for a mil, Ribeiro and Roy for a mil. Granted they're somewhat of a risk for varying reasons but in no way is Sutter a four million dollar player or above what either of those players brings to the rink. He's losing money every day that he doesn't sign.

Sutter would get 4mil easy on the open market. Same thing happens every year...player signs, everyone says he's overpaid, free agency hits and then everyone forgets at the bargain their player signed for.
- jchst22

On the open market, sure he would get that much, but he isn't on the open market. He is on the restricted market, so he doesn't have the leverage to make those demands, if he doesn't agree, he can either just sign for what was offered for the minimum years so he can get to free agency, or he can try to work a deal for a team to put in an offer sheet. But I don't see anyone giving him that kind of money and having to part with a 1st and 3rd rd draft pick. If I am the Pens I am giving him two options, the qualifying offer, 2.7, for the remaining years of his restricted free agency or I give him more than that, somewhere around 3.5, but expect a year or two of his free agency as well. He's a good player, but he certainly isn't irreplaceable. I don't see him having anywhere near the value to this team that Staal had when he was making $4/yr even with inflation adjusted for the higher salary cap.

It's not how this year is playing out though. Heatley for a mil, Ribeiro and Roy for a mil. Granted they're somewhat of a risk for varying reasons but in no way is Sutter a four million dollar player or above what either of those players brings to the rink. He's losing money every day that he doesn't sign.
- Topshelf Mountain

Heatley doesn't score much anymore and is a defensive liability.

Ribiero got bought out because of issues with his wife that he used to write off his poor performance in Phoenix.

Roy is joining his 4th team in the last two years. He's known to be a problem in the locker room.

None of those contract reflect upon Sutter's actual value.

I don't have a problem with Sutter, just not over 3mil/yr. Seems a bit high for what he brings to the table. I don't expect the 3c to rack up pts, maybe 15g/season which I think he is capable of.

Heatley doesn't score much anymore and is a defensive liability.

Ribiero got bought out because of issues with his wife that he used to write off his poor performance in Phoenix.

Roy is joining his 4th team in the last two years. He's known to be a problem in the locker room.

None of those contract reflect upon Sutter's actual value.
- hardnosed

Exactly. All of those guys are washed up players who have had problems/issues in seasons past. When trying to compare what they make vs a 25? year old player who was surrounded by nothing but a bunch of anchors last year doesn't make sense. I point out the players surrounding Sutter cause someone will point to the stats which everyone knows isn't a sure thing when comparing.

Heatley doesn't score much anymore and is a defensive liability.

Ribiero got bought out because of issues with his wife that he used to write off his poor performance in Phoenix.

Roy is joining his 4th team in the last two years. He's known to be a problem in the locker room.

None of those contract reflect upon Sutter's actual value.
- hardnosed

I disagree. Ribeiro almost doubled his point production during an off year, and while he's not a great defensive player, neither is Sutter. Sutters minutes were babysat away from the better players all year and he mustered 26 points. The playoffs were an anomaly for him. Goc is better and should be centering that third line.

I don't have a problem with Sutter, just not over 3mil/yr. Seems a bit high for what he brings to the table. I don't expect the 3c to rack up pts, maybe 15g/season which I think he is capable of.
- sammy87

But you do want the third line to be a shutdown line. He has proven uncapable of anchoring that type of line.

But you do want the third line to be a shutdown line. He has proven uncapable of anchoring that type of line.
- Topshelf Mountain

Everyone wants an additional top six forward to help Crosby and Kunitz. . . . . yet choose to ignore that a third line center needs a supporting cast that has some hockey IQ and skill to be successful as well. Pens didn't have a player with high IQ or skill on the third line outside of sutter all last year let alone a player with both to help shoulder the load.

Everyone wants an additional top six forward to help Crosby and Kunitz. . . . . yet choose to ignore that a third line center needs a supporting cast that has some hockey IQ and skill to be successful as well. Pens didn't have a player with high IQ or skill on the third line outside of sutter all last year let alone a player with both to help shoulder the load.
- kgrpitt

But they do now and they also have Goc.

Don't fall in love with average. Don't pay a premium for average.

But you do want the third line to be a shutdown line. He has proven uncapable of anchoring that type of line.
- Topshelf Mountain

Is there such a thing as a shutdown line anymore?

Exactly. All of those guys are washed up players who have had problems/issues in seasons past. When trying to compare what they make vs a 25? year old player who was surrounded by nothing but a bunch of anchors last year doesn't make sense. I point out the players surrounding Sutter cause someone will point to the stats which everyone knows isn't a sure thing when comparing.
- kgrpitt

Maybe not the best comparisons, but in general, better players are being paid less than Sutter. His value is inflated because hes young and has "upside". I'm just excluding this entire free agency because this year the money was bananas.

The issue with Sutter is that he's more of a passenger. We tend to assume he'll be better when he has better linemate BUT he doesn't elevate anyone elses game. $3.25 is my max...else, hope for an offer sheet or use him as an asset and trade him.

But they do now and they also have Goc.

Don't fall in love with average. Don't pay a premium for average.
- Ryan_Wilson

And that is fine. Sutter leaves, whatever. It is always the same story with pens fans and the third line center. Next year when Goc has no linemates and doesn't score like a 1st line center everyone will want his head as well.

And that is fine. Sutter leaves, whatever. It is always the same story with pens fans and the third line center. Next year when Goc has no linemates and doesn't score like a 1st line center everyone will want his head as well.
- kgrpitt

Look at the stats and the fact that Crosby was the shutdown line last year. Sutter at 4 mil is lunacy. He's not that good. Goc is equally talented or better, and for much cheaper.

But they do now and they also have Goc.

Don't fall in love with average. Don't pay a premium for average.
- Ryan_Wilson

Ryan...you're alive. Hey, was wondering if you have dusted off the old Letang for Eberle deal?

Is there such a thing as a shutdown line anymore?
- icedog97

What team doesn't have one?