Why is everyone making a big deal about what B Ryan said in 2012? At the time he was with Anaheim and was surrounded by trade rumours. Guess what, if someone asked me if I'd like to play with Giroux I'd say yes too. At the time, G was considered one of the top 5 forwards in the NHL.

However, this is now two years later and Ryan is in a new situation in Ottawa where the organization is showing him the love he wants. He and more importantly his fiancee appear happy.

As for the Leafs having 3 better wingers well that's laughable. Kessel sure, I mean he will score 5-7 more goals a year than Ryan probably but their assists I bet will be similar. JVR is a very similar player to Ryan but is on a better contract going forward so I'd consider him more valuable in a cap world. But, overall game I think Ryan is slightly better. Lupul is certainly not a point per game player and we all know is injury prone, he's a bit of an enigma.
- riceroni

I just want to point out Kessel had more assists then Ryan had points in the shortened season and 18 more assists then Ryan this year. Kessels passing game is so underrated it's too bad, he really does make everyone around him better. I agree with JVR I think they're a wash and though Lupul isn't a ppg player neither is Ryan, and when healthy I don't think Ryan is that much better then Lupul, but still a better player.

So bobby Ryan couldn't make a team that didn't medal. What's your point?
- prock

that they are all inferior players to gold medal Olympian winger Chris Kunitz

I just want to point out Kessel had more assists then Ryan had points in the shortened season and 18 more assists then Ryan this year. Kessels passing game is so underrated it's too bad, he really does make everyone around him better. I agree with JVR I think they're a wash and though Lupul isn't a ppg player neither is Ryan, and when healthy I don't think Ryan is that much better then Lupul.
- ClarksonDavid

I think that is a really important point and, I am sure, it might be of great consolation to the guys on the Leaf thread. They seem to be a little lost talking about their futuristic LeBron moment that it might help if you went over and helped them with a little hockey talk based on real time.

I just want to point out Kessel had more assists then Ryan had points in the shortened season and 18 more assists then Ryan this year. Kessels passing game is so underrated it's too bad, he really does make everyone around him better. I agree with JVR I think they're a wash and though Lupul isn't a ppg player neither is Ryan, and when healthy I don't think Ryan is that much better then Lupul, but still a better player.
- ClarksonDavid

Yes Kessel is everything you want in a player - except being good. The guy has done nothing in his career on any team he has been on - he has the stats but everyone (even Leaffs fans know) he isn't someone you win with or can build with - hes just a 1 way offensive talent. Alexi Yashin, Mike Ribiero come to mind.

Kessel has no heart and isn't someone that can play within a tigh system, this is why the Leafs always collpase because when push comes to shove thier Stars go away, very far away and dont have the nads to do what you need to do to win.

Ryan is a much better player then Kessel, he's unselfish, plays 2 ways, plays the body and is an emetional type of player - he gets his teammates fired up and can play hockey against any team in the league - big, fast, tight, open. Kessel can only play open hockey

Yes Kessel is everything you want in a player - except being good. The guy has done nothing in his career on any team he has been on - he has the stats but everyone (even Leaffs fans know) he isn't someone you win with or can build with - hes just a 1 way offensive talent. Alexi Yashin, Mike Ribiero come to mind.

Kessel has no heart and isn't someone that can play within a tigh system, this is why the Leafs always collpase because when push comes to shove thier Stars go away, very far away and dont have the nads to do what you need to do to win.

Ryan is a much better player then Kessel, he's unselfish, plays 2 ways, plays the body and is an emetional type of player - he gets his teammates fired up and can play hockey against any team in the league - big, fast, tight, open. Kessel can only play open hockey
- tuna99

This is such a homer post. Wow. How do you know Ryan gets his team mates fired up? You in the room? You have no idea what Kessel or Ryan are like in the room. Ryan could be completely hated for all anyone knows. Kessel you can tell he wants to win he was visually frustrated at the end of the season. Him and Bernier carried the Leafs all season and when they weren't going the team didn't go. He was awesome in the Boston series so it's not like he didn't show up there either. Just a ridiculous post all around. Bravo. Not his fault he's on a poop team. Ryan's hasn't had a great season since his 71 pt year, have fun paying a 55-60 pt player 8 million, that's if he wants to sign.

This is such a homer post. Wow. How do you know Ryan gets his team mates fired up? You in the room? You have no idea what Kessel or Ryan are like in the room. Ryan could be completely hated for all anyone knows. Kessel you can tell he wants to win he was visually frustrated at the end of the season. Him and Bernier carried the Leafs all season and when they weren't going the team didn't go. He was awesome in the Boston series so it's not like he didn't show up there either. Just a ridiculous post all around. Bravo. Not his fault he's on a poop team. Ryan's hasn't had a great season since his 71 pt year, have fun paying a 55-60 pt player 8 million, that's if he wants to sign.
- ClarksonDavid

I sincerely hope he doesn't

This is such a homer post. Wow. How do you know Ryan gets his team mates fired up? You in the room? You have no idea what Kessel or Ryan are like in the room. Ryan could be completely hated for all anyone knows. Kessel you can tell he wants to win he was visually frustrated at the end of the season. Him and Bernier carried the Leafs all season and when they weren't going the team didn't go. He was awesome in the Boston series so it's not like he didn't show up there either. Just a ridiculous post all around. Bravo. Not his fault he's on a poop team. Ryan's hasn't had a great season since his 71 pt year, have fun paying a 55-60 pt player 8 million, that's if he wants to sign.
- ClarksonDavid

Kessel has only ever had negative +/- seasons in Toronto - not his fault but it shows he has done nothing beyond his red line going the other way to improve the state of the team.

Boston gave up on Kessel because of his attitude, it's been documented he doesnt really gel with his teammates and isn't the type of player you give $8 million too because he's a one dimentional PP player.

The Leafs made a mistake trading for him and they made a bigger mistake signing him to the $8 million a year extention - hes an offensive threat but like i said and everyone knows - he has ZERO leadership, plays a 120 foot game, is immature on and off the ice and his teammates think he's a weirdo.

Keep him, he'll rack up all the offensive stats to justify the $$$ but at the end of the day he won't do anything for your team to help them win.

This is such a homer post. Wow. How do you know Ryan gets his team mates fired up? You in the room? You have no idea what Kessel or Ryan are like in the room. Ryan could be completely hated for all anyone knows. Kessel you can tell he wants to win he was visually frustrated at the end of the season. Him and Bernier carried the Leafs all season and when they weren't going the team didn't go. He was awesome in the Boston series so it's not like he didn't show up there either. Just a ridiculous post all around. Bravo. Not his fault he's on a poop team. Ryan's hasn't had a great season since his 71 pt year, have fun paying a 55-60 pt player 8 million, that's if he wants to sign.
- ClarksonDavid

Don't pay any attention to Tuna... he's our Prock

Kessel has only ever had negative +/- seasons in Toronto - not his fault but it shows he has done nothing beyond his red line going the other way to improve the state of the team.

Boston gave up on Kessel because of his attitude, it's been documented he doesnt really gel with his teammates and isn't the type of player you give $8 million too because he's a one dimentional PP player.

The Leafs made a mistake trading for him and they made a bigger mistake signing him to the $8 million a year extention - hes an offensive threat but like i said and everyone knows - he has ZERO leadership, plays a 120 foot game, is immature on and off the ice and his teammates think he's a weirdo.

Keep him, he'll rack up all the offensive stats to justify the $$$ but at the end of the day he won't do anything for your team to help them win.
- tuna99

He seems pretty well liked from what I've seen. He seems like a bit of an introvert, but I would be the same way if people were always trying to get a piece of me.

Don't pay any attention to Tuna... he's our Prock
- riceroni

I was going to say that, plus the fact he's using plus minus to make a point shows he knows nothing about hockey anyway.

This is such a homer post. Wow. How do you know Ryan gets his team mates fired up? You in the room? You have no idea what Kessel or Ryan are like in the room. Ryan could be completely hated for all anyone knows. Kessel you can tell he wants to win he was visually frustrated at the end of the season. Him and Bernier carried the Leafs all season and when they weren't going the team didn't go. He was awesome in the Boston series so it's not like he didn't show up there either. Just a ridiculous post all around. Bravo. Not his fault he's on a poop team. Ryan's hasn't had a great season since his 71 pt year, have fun paying a 55-60 pt player 8 million, that's if he wants to sign.
- ClarksonDavid

No, it's a Tuna post. Whole other category of outrageous.

Kessel is the full package. He has beyond proven himself the last couple of years, and is one of if not the best winger in the game. Kessel played well in the plympics, well in the playoffs, and everywhere else.

He's not to blame for the leafs collapses, their roster being not that good is the issue. Kessel is worth building around. Dion, Kadri, Bozak, and Clarkson are not, and the depth just isn't there in the system still.

So bobby Ryan couldn't make a team that didn't medal. What's your point?
- prock

Prock, you can either leave this thread or face a long term ban.

I'm sick of your constant trolling of the sens boards.

The warnings are done.

I was going to say that, plus the fact he's using plus minus to make a point shows he knows nothing about hockey anyway.
- ClarksonDavid

You can get out now too.

No, it's a Tuna post. Whole other category of outrageous.

Kessel is the full package. He has beyond proven himself the last couple of years, and is one of if not the best winger in the game. Kessel played well in the plympics, well in the playoffs, and everywhere else.

He's not to blame for the leafs collapses, their roster being not that good is the issue. Kessel is worth building around. Dion, Kadri, Bozak, and Clarkson are not, and the depth just isn't there in the system still.
- TommyDeVito

Kessel is not the type of player I'd build my team around, I don't like his game or his attitude.

people like to watch the hilites and not real hockey - Kessel gets you the hilites, just nothing else. Ovechkin, Heatley, Gaborik - lot's of NHL wingers with goal scoring who do nothing for your team to win.
Carter, Alfie, Nash - these are goal scoring wingers that do things when they aren't scoring and help you win. These are the types of players I'd build around - leaders, good teammates, 200 foot games.

Kessel is not the type of player I'd build my team around, I don't like his game or his attitude.

people like to watch the hilites and not real hockey - Kessel gets you the hilites, just nothing else. Ovechkin, Heatley, Gaborik - lot's of NHL wingers with goal scoring who do nothing for your team to win.
Carter, Alfie, Nash - these are goal scoring wingers that do things when they aren't scoring and help you win. These are the types of players I'd build around - leaders, good teammates, 200 foot games.
- tuna99

Alfie and Nash haven't won anything and Nash really didn't have a good playoffs and you would build around him, yet Gaborick one of the cup winning teams best forwards you wouldn't? I'm sorry I don't get it

I was going to say that, plus the fact he's using plus minus to make a point shows he knows nothing about hockey anyway.
- ClarksonDavid

I don't think +/- is an irrelevant stat. I think all the stats that are tracked are important and some are worth more than others. In +/-, I generally consider extremes in wither direction as a telling fact about a players play that year. Like, Spezza and Karlsson were just bad in that stat this past season and I think it was just a measure of how bad the whole think was all around. But, I also think Corsi, Fenwick and PDO are important and maybe a little more telling about the state of a players overall game. I kinda wish there was even more tracking done though. Like, measuring shots on ice from scoring areas instead of shots from anywhere... or, amount of time the player controls the puck on their stick, or when they have the puck, how long do they carry it for and what distance do they cover with it.

Kessel has only ever had negative +/- seasons in Toronto - not his fault but it shows he has done nothing beyond his red line going the other way to improve the state of the team.

Boston gave up on Kessel because of his attitude, it's been documented he doesnt really gel with his teammates and isn't the type of player you give $8 million too because he's a one dimentional PP player.

The Leafs made a mistake trading for him and they made a bigger mistake signing him to the $8 million a year extention - hes an offensive threat but like i said and everyone knows - he has ZERO leadership, plays a 120 foot game, is immature on and off the ice and his teammates think he's a weirdo.

Keep him, he'll rack up all the offensive stats to justify the $$$ but at the end of the day he won't do anything for your team to help them win.
- tuna99

Boston has such a good track record of nurturing their offensive stars and seeing their development through until the end, too.

Like that one time they drafted Joe Thorton and then he became the NHL MVP in San Jose the same season they traded him.

Or that other time they had Phil Kessel and then he went on to become a point per game player and perennial 30 goal guy in Toronto starting the next season.

Or that last time when they drafted Tyler Seguin second overall and then he was fourth in league scoring in Dallas the next season after they traded him.

Not saying Boston hasn't done lots of things right, but helping offensive players reach their potential isn't one of them.

You can get out now too.
- Dozzer

I don't see ClarksonDavid as a troll, he contributes to conversations quite nicely.

I don't see ClarksonDavid as a troll, he contributes to conversations quite nicely.
- forbetterorWORSE

and with the personal insults that go on here and this is what people get tagged for - okay....

I don't see ClarksonDavid as a troll, he contributes to conversations quite nicely.
- forbetterorWORSE

Fair enough.

I don't think +/- is an irrelevant stat. I think all the stats that are tracked are important and some are worth more than others. In +/-, I generally consider extremes in wither direction as a telling fact about a players play that year. Like, Spezza and Karlsson were just bad in that stat this past season and I think it was just a measure of how bad the whole think was all around. But, I also think Corsi, Fenwick and PDO are important and maybe a little more telling about the state of a players overall game. I kinda wish there was even more tracking done though. Like, measuring shots on ice from scoring areas instead of shots from anywhere... or, amount of time the player controls the puck on their stick, or when they have the puck, how long do they carry it for and what distance do they cover with it.
- riceroni

I really like advance stats to be honest, it's not all I would use to make thoughts on certain players but it helps. With +/- if a player was say -35 or something I'd be concerned but anywhere around even or even -10 I don't put to much stock in.

and with the personal insults that go on here and this is what people get tagged for - okay....
- tuna99

Not the path you want to take.

I don't think +/- is an irrelevant stat. I think all the stats that are tracked are important and some are worth more than others. In +/-, I generally consider extremes in wither direction as a telling fact about a players play that year. Like, Spezza and Karlsson were just bad in that stat this past season and I think it was just a measure of how bad the whole think was all around. But, I also think Corsi, Fenwick and PDO are important and maybe a little more telling about the state of a players overall game. I kinda wish there was even more tracking done though. Like, measuring shots on ice from scoring areas instead of shots from anywhere... or, amount of time the player controls the puck on their stick, or when they have the puck, how long do they carry it for and what distance do they cover with it.
- riceroni

The only way I would ever use +/- as a reflection on a player is in contrast to their own teammates.

By itself, it's worthless. But your differential to your teams average is pretty telling a lot of the time.

Alfie and Nash haven't won anything and Nash really didn't have a good playoffs and you would build around him, yet Gaborick one of the cup winning teams best forwards you wouldn't? I'm sorry I don't get it
- ClarksonDavid

Alfie and Nash havent won the Cup you are correct - they were just Captains of their teams and grew hockey in markets that were new to the NHL - on and off ice leadership and 200 foot games on the ice.

Could Kessel do this? I don't think so.

And the Olympics are a perfect example of Kessel's game. He is great against Slovenia and Slocakia, against the power teams he does nothing - this is the type of player he is and always will be.

You can't teach heart and desire, you either have it or you don't, and Kessel doesn't have it

The only way I would ever use +/- as a reflection on a player is in contrast to their own teammates.

By itself, it's worthless. But your differential to your teams average is pretty telling a lot of the time.
- TommyDeVito

Any stat alone can tell you a story that is misleading. It's the combination of indicators that make opinions more concrete.