Whatever you want, Mario Gets. Get it?

Also, we should really make sure we keep this to hockey-only talk.
- jmatchett383

Thought of that as soon as I saw his name on the screen yesterday.

We need a culture change. Maybe change the colors to black and gold, maybe have a picture of a skating arctic bird creature, and have a huge mural of our team's best player made up of small pictures of said player next to our arena entrance...should do pretty well.
- jmatchett383

The Pens stole their color scheme (unapologetically, I should add) from the Steelers, who were winning championships and hearts and minds and whatever else in Western PA.

Thought of that as soon as I saw his name on the screen yesterday.
- tangent_man

I'm just happy someone else thought the same thing.

Ya, I actually being one of the teams with only one logo. Some teams (like the Bruins) pull it off, but overall I think alternate logos tend to look tacky.
- JAKEw1234

We can't really have an alternate logo though. You bring up the Bruins...well a bruin is a bear.

What is a flyer??

The new logo could be a piece of paper with writing on it advertising a high school musical

Not by much. Remember the Oilers played against 3 other expansion clubs who didn't have the advantage of having 99 on the roster. I'd call it a wash.
- mayorofangrytown

They played against one expansion team in their division, Winnipeg. During Edmonton's first year the Smythe was Chicago, St Louis, Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg & Colorado(formerly Kansas City).

It changed before Gretzky's third season. Chicago, Winnipeg and St Louis moved to the Norris and Calgary and LA joined Edmonton, Colorado and Vancouver.

Granted, bad teams, with several cases of under .500 teams making the playoffs, but again, by Gretzky's third and fourth seasons, the Oilers were not struggling even a little bit.

Pittsburgh in Lemieux's first season played in a division with some heavyweights with the Flyers, Caps and Isles all being 40+ win teams. But the rest of the Patrick was under .500. The Rangers made the playoffs despite a 26-44-10 record. The Devils were even more inept. In fact, in Pittsburgh's first three seasons there was a playoff team in their division that was under .500.

The Pens stole their color scheme (unapologetically, I should add) from the Steelers, who were winning championships and hearts and minds and whatever else in Western PA.
- johndewar

Well, have you ever BEEN to Pittsburgh? There isn't jack to do except ride a rickety cage up and down a mountain side and attend sports' games. Not too hard to win the hearts and minds of that fanbase. Hell, they actually supported the Pirates for years, because there's nothing to do in that area between May and August.

Of course it could be argued Gretzky had a bigger impact on his teammates, that he made those around him better in a way Lemieux couldn't.
- wolfhounds

You can't argue that the Oilers drafting was light years ahead of the Penguins when those guys broke into the league.

Hell, over the course of it's existence, the Pens franchise has not drafted well unless a top 5 pick dropped in their lap and in the 80's not even then.

We can't really have an alternate logo though. You bring up the Bruins...well a bruin is a bear.

What is a flyer??

The new logo could be a piece of paper with writing on it advertising a high school musical
- Giroux_Is_God

- jmatchett383

Perfect

We can't really have an alternate logo though. You bring up the Bruins...well a bruin is a bear.

What is a flyer??

The new logo could be a piece of paper with writing on it advertising a high school musical
- Giroux_Is_God

It's genius!

Perfect
- Giroux_Is_God

Mike Richards would totally demand a trade back to us.

I'm just happy someone else thought the same thing.
- jmatchett383

I'm sure there were others. I would hope so, anyway...classic Pesci delivery.

Of course it could be argued Gretzky had a bigger impact on his teammates, that he made those around him better in a way Lemieux couldn't.
- wolfhounds

It could be argued, but even without Gretzky, the guys on the Oilers during his second year-Kurri, Messer, Anderson, Coffey, Lowe and Huddy were all very good players on their own merits.

In Lemieux's 2nd and 3rd years he had guys like Rob Brown, Warren Young, randy Cunneyworth and Terry Ruskowski as supporting cast members.

It could be argued, but even without Gretzky, the guys on the Oilers during his second year-Kurri, Messer, Anderson, Coffey, Lowe and Huddy were all very good players on their own merits.

In Lemieux's 2nd and 3rd years he had guys like Rob Brown, Warren Young, randy Cunneyworth and Terry Ruskowski as supporting cast members.
- Jsaquella

I'm sure having Dave Semenko as a full-time LW really inflated Gretzky's stats his first few years, also.

You can't argue that the Oilers drafting was light years ahead of the Penguins when those guys broke into the league.

Hell, over the course of it's existence, the Pens franchise has not drafted well unless a top 5 pick dropped in their lap and in the 80's not even then.
- mayorofangrytown

To return to the initial argument, comparing Gretzky and Lemieux, it's pretty obvious that Gretzy had a much better supporting cast around him and sooner than Lemieux did.

They played against one expansion team in their division, Winnipeg. During Edmonton's first year the Smythe was Chicago, St Louis, Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg & Colorado(formerly Kansas City).

It changed before Gretzky's third season. Chicago, Winnipeg and St Louis moved to the Norris and Calgary and LA joined Edmonton, Colorado and Vancouver.

Granted, bad teams, with several cases of under .500 teams making the playoffs, but again, by Gretzky's third and fourth seasons, the Oilers were not struggling even a little bit.

Pittsburgh in Lemieux's first season played in a division with some heavyweights with the Flyers, Caps and Isles all being 40+ win teams. But the rest of the Patrick was under .500. The Rangers made the playoffs despite a 26-44-10 record. The Devils were even more inept. In fact, in Pittsburgh's first three seasons there was a playoff team in their division that was under .500.
- Jsaquella

You've moved completely past the point. The point was that Gretzky never had to deal with a rebuild. He did. To the length that 66 did? No and agreed. When Mario started his carrier he was with the worst established team in the NHL. Wayne started with an expansion team.

To your new point, yes, the Oilers improved quickly and the Pens floundered for years. There's no arguing that point. I wouldn't even try.

To return to the initial argument, comparing Gretzky and Lemieux, it's pretty obvious that Gretzy had a much better supporting cast around him and sooner than Lemieux did.
- Jsaquella

Yes he did. But I hate it when people act like Mario never played with any good players, and that, if he'd played with any decent players ever, he'd have eclipsed Gretzky's totals by his 4th season.

I'm sure having Dave Semenko as a full-time LW really inflated Gretzky's stats his first few years, also.
- jmatchett383

Semenko did play a bit with Gretzky, but was not his full time winger. Sort of like how Shero would occasionally shift Schultz with Clarke(see OT winner game two of 1974 SCF), was how Semenko was used with Gretzy.

Yes he did. But I hate it when people act like Mario never played with any good players, and that, if he'd played with any decent players ever, he'd have eclipsed Gretzky's totals by his 4th season.
- jmatchett383

I think if Lemieux had been healthy and had the same support group that Gretzky did, he would have had more points. Not by his 4th season, but over the course of a full career.

It's genius!
- JAKEw1234

Better believe it is

I think if Lemieux had been healthy and had the same support group that Gretzky did, he would have had more points. Not by his 4th season, but over the course of a full career.
- Jsaquella

Just gonna disagree there

You've moved completely past the point. The point was that Gretzky never had to deal with a rebuild. He did. To the length that 66 did? No and agreed. When Mario started his carrier he was with the worst established team in the NHL. Wayne started with an expansion team.

To your new point, yes, the Oilers improved quickly and the Pens floundered for years. There's no arguing that point. I wouldn't even try.
- mayorofangrytown

The initial point was that Gretzky had more talent around him for a large portion of his NHL career. By Gretzky's second season, he had 4 or 5 other future HOFers on the same roster. Lemieux had Craig Simpson and Dan Quinn.

My listing of the divisional combos was more to refute the comment you made about the Oilers struggling for Gretzky's first 4 years. They struggled for his first two, but by season 4, they were a Cup finalist.

Just gonna disagree there
- jmatchett383

That's fine. Gretzky missed 24 games during his 9 seasons in Edmonton. Lemieux missed 144 during his first 9 seasons.

Health played a massive role in limiting Lemieux's production. Even with the injuries and lesser supporting cast for significant chunks of his career, the PPG averages are remarkably similar. Gretzky had a 1.92 PPG as a NHLer, Lemieux had a 1.88.

I think a healthy, cancer free Lemieux, playing fewer years in the clutch and grab NHL overcomes that 0.04 PPG difference rather easily.

On a different note, EK has the Flyers interested on Myers (laughs as he writes this). Any interest there and if so what would you give to get?

Better believe it is
- Giroux_Is_God

Did a quick search on concept logos. These aren't horrible