Gretzky was traded, Babe Ruth was traded. I'm not advocating it, but Kane can be traded too.

And you mention the value Kane has as a spokesman and/or face of a team. Well that would hold true for the team he's traded to, making him even more valuable in a trade than just his on ice value.

Kane and Toews will be in their prime 5-6 years into this deal and by then their cap hit, assuming they stay healthy, will be friendly. Much like Crosby and Malkin's will be.

As bad as it seems for clubs with dual superstars cap wise it's better than the alternative of having to pay big dollars on the free agent market for older players past their prime cuz they have nobody in the system that warrants that kind of money, or over pay for a kid like Niskanen.

It's up to the GM to make it work through shrewd trades, solid free agent signings to fill secondary needs, solid drafting and no bad contracts given out cuz you can't spend your way out of those mistakes in the Hawks' situation.
- Mr Ricochet

And Jabbar got traded and....

And they all got traded for reasons other than getting value back or improving the team they left: Ruth went to NY because the Red Sox owner needed cash, Jabbar wanted out of a one-horse town, Gretzke moved for his wife's career and to move to a bigger city (IIRC) - you can't get enough back for a franchise-defining superstar to make the trade worthwhile as a normal trade.

Don't know that Kane has the same impact on the Hawks as Gretzke, Jabbar, Ruth had on their teams, but it would be difficult for one team out there to have enough to make a deal worthwhile for the Hawks.

It's funny because the Penguins drafted lots of defensemen...mostly of the puck moving variety...and it probably had more to do with Bylsma and Shero's idea of style of play (engaging the defensemen).

I'm curious to see how the Penguin's defense looks under a different playing style/approach.

BTW...They didn't lose in the playoffs the last two years because of their defense...the lost because they didn't score.
- icedog97

Get ready for a lot of stretch passes and Dmen leading the rush up the ice.

Signed,
A Winterhawk Fan

Is Marchand 3.8 million per yer better than Saad?
- Tanuki

Lets compare the two after Bowman hands Saad a long term deal that isnt an entry deal or a bridge deal then you can compare the two

And Jabbar got traded and....

And they all got traded for reasons other than getting value back or improving the team they left: Ruth went to NY because the Red Sox owner needed cash, Jabbar wanted out of a one-horse town, Gretzke moved for his wife's career and to move to a bigger city (IIRC) - you can't get enough back for a franchise-defining superstar to make the trade worthwhile as a normal trade.

Don't know that Kane has the same impact on the Hawks as Gretzke, Jabbar, Ruth had on their teams, but it would be difficult for one team out there to have enough to make a deal worthwhile for the Hawks.
- StLBravesFan

With out looking it up, who did the Bucks get for Jabbar?

I think that makes my point actually. Does anybody believe Pippen could have led the Hawks to championships without Jorden? Perfect case of a superstar and a great player. Nobody is confused about who is the superstar.
- spatso

Yes he is.

He is absolutely $4MM better.

Because he GOT it.

Crazy when you consider their top two centers are two of the best scorers and playmakers in the league.
- YzermanIsTheMan

It is...

and when they failed to score (those two and team as a whole) the show was eerily familiar...like a bad re-run.

You could just see that once a team figured out how to stop the Pens from scoring, it was over.

Apparently, management (eventually) thought that was a coaching issue. I definitely think some of the blame lies with the coaches for not being able to devise a game plan that could be successful...especially given what you cited above.

But the bigger issue...especially with respect to this blog...was lack of depth...lines 3 and 4 were not nearly good enough...so teams could/can focus on stopping lines 1 and 2 and win games.

Lets compare the two after Bowman hands Saad a long term deal that isnt an entry deal or a bridge deal then you can compare the two
- FourFeathers773

I agree, I was just pointing out just how difficult it is to compare player salaries when deals are signed at different years and under differing cap implications.

And Jabbar got traded and....

And they all got traded for reasons other than getting value back or improving the team they left: Ruth went to NY because the Red Sox owner needed cash, Jabbar wanted out of a one-horse town, Gretzky moved for his wife's career and to move to a bigger city (IIRC) - you can't get enough back for a franchise-defining superstar to make the trade worthwhile as a normal trade.

Don't know that Kane has the same impact on the Hawks as Gretzky, Jabbar, Ruth had on their teams, but it would be difficult for one team out there to have enough to make a deal worthwhile for the Hawks.
- StLBravesFan

Wayne Gretzky left the greatest hockey team in the universe for his wife's "acting" career. That was the funniest (saddest) one I have ever heard. Really now, who outside of Hollywood itself knows who Janet Jones is, other than Mrs. Wayne Gretzky.

And how good was the Oil? They still won the 1990 cup w/o "The Great One". However, if he stayed, there would be no Calgary Flames 1989 cup. Edmonton would have won in '89, again in '90, with 4 in a row and 6 of 7.

It's funny because the Penguins drafted lots of defensemen...mostly of the puck moving variety...and it probably had more to do with Bylsma and Shero's idea of style of play (engaging the defensemen).

I'm curious to see how the Penguin's defense looks under a different playing style/approach.

BTW...They didn't lose in the playoffs the last two years because of their defense...the lost because they didn't score.
- icedog97

To your point, philosophy has alot to do with it. Pens had no transition game because the d could not effectively/consistantly feed their scoring machines. Also seldom did anyone step up from their bottom 6. The latter was our downfall this year.

Toews isn't 4 million per year better than Bergeron

He's better, not 4 million better
- RoloTahmasee

Bergeron was a year late to the party. The bar has been raised

Toews isn't 4 million per year better than Bergeron

He's better, not 4 million better
- RoloTahmasee

Maybe not while looking at video game attributes but reality says otherwise. There are many many factors that dictate what a player is worth.

I'd say:

- 2 Stanley Cups
- 2 Gold Medals
- Being a large factor in turning around and revitalizing a hockey organization.

Those just being a few of his accomplishments in 7 short years, I'd say, have easily earned him that 4 mil/per bonus.

If you are serious about trading Kane, think that will make the team better, you need to say what is coming back.

I don't think most here would say you can't trade him, just more of what comes back.

If not investing heavy in Kane and Toews, who should they invest in? Pretty easy to just say, trade Kane, not as easy to replace his clutch performances in the playoffs. I've been a chicago sports fan (all sports) for almost a half century, take away MJ, pretty tough to find a more clutch player in big games than Kane and that includes Toews.

Also, guys coming back in any trade would have tremendous pressure trying to live up to Kane.

Its amazing to me, a not too long ago the FO was a joke and great players like JR and Eddy wouldn't get paid, and people complained. Now the stars get paid and are here for their career, and people still complain, its mind boggling to me.
- vabeachbear

I'm not saying to def trade Kane. Just saying, it also might not be a disaster for the team on the ice, depending, as you say, on the return. Probably a moot point anyway.

Maybe not while looking at video game attributes but reality says otherwise. There are many many factors that dictate what a player is worth.

I'd say:

- 2 Stanley Cups
- 2 Gold Medals
- Being a large factor in turning around and revitalizing a hockey organization.

Those just being a few of his accomplishments in 7 short years, I'd say, have easily earned him that 4 mil/per bonus.
- PhilMeister89

The reality is they were UFA's in different years. Is Bergeron worth more than 6.5M? Probably if he were coming up on UFA next year...maybe something like 8M. If Toews/Kane were UFA's this year, like Bergeron was, they probably wouldn't get 10.5...but I would guess they would get 9.5-10.0.

I love Bergeron's game. Love it. But he's also not a Captain nor does he have the responsibility of being a #1C.

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but

Hawks hire Kevin Dineen as new asst. coach...

http://www.csnchicago.com...ineen-new-assistant-coach

Maybe a Q crony, but this crony has a clue. I like this.
- 6628

Agreed

I'm not saying to def trade Kane. Just saying, it also might not be a disaster for the team on the ice, depending, as you say, on the return. Probably a moot point anyway.
- John Jaeckel

I've talked about this elsewhere with others, but often afraid to bring it up here because of the pendulum of fan emotions that are on display. So here goes...honest question, what would be a fair return for Kane?

I would like to hear 'in the ballpark' suggestions, such as Cody Hodgson, Mark Pysyk and a 1st round pick. Or something of that variety (just using Buffalo, because their fans have a chub for 88). I've thought about this and I'm not really sure what a good return would be.

Before anyone goes ape, I'm not saying that Buffalo is trading for Kane, that is a fair return, or even that the Hawks are shopping Kane. We have to mention this for some folks around here.

And to your point, John, it is moot.

Wayne Gretzky left the greatest hockey team in the universe for his wife's "acting" career. That was the funniest (saddest) one I have ever heard. Really now, who outside of Hollywood itself knows who Janet Jones is, other than Mrs. Wayne Gretzky.

And how good was the Oil? They still won the 1990 cup w/o "The Great One". However, if he stayed, there would be no Calgary Flames 1989 cup. Edmonton would have won in '89, again in '90, with 4 in a row and 6 of 7.
- blackhawk24

She was in " A Choir line" and sung the hit tune "Tits and Ass".

Maybe not while looking at video game attributes but reality says otherwise. There are many many factors that dictate what a player is worth.

I'd say:

- 2 Stanley Cups
- 2 Gold Medals
- Being a large factor in turning around and revitalizing a hockey organization.

Those just being a few of his accomplishments in 7 short years, I'd say, have easily earned him that 4 mil/per bonus.
- PhilMeister89

I wonder moneterially what a cup victory is actually worth to an organization. Besides more home games, concessions, all of the promo items. If I were to guess, more than 84 million.

JJ, do you have a preference on what the next move should be....Sharp, Leddy, Rozy, Oduya, Steeger, etc...

Scottie Pippen voted by the NBA as one of the 50 greatest players of all time, but he's merely a "great player"?
- Sandus

Bulls fan here. Scottie Pippen was only on that "top 50 all-time" list because he was fresh in people's minds when that survey was done (2000?). Over time, he will fade to a "really nice #2 player", a great Robin if you have Batman.

I've talked about this elsewhere with others, but often afraid to bring it up here because of the pendulum of fan emotions that are on display. So here goes...honest question, what would be a fair return for Kane?

I would like to hear 'in the ballpark' suggestions, such as Cody Hodgson, Mark Pysyk and a 1st round pick. Or something of that variety (just using Buffalo, because their fans have a chub for 88). I've thought about this and I'm not really sure what a good return would be.

Before anyone goes ape, I'm not saying that Buffalo is trading for Kane, that is a fair return, or even that the Hawks are shopping Kane. We have to mention this for some folks around here.

And to your point, John, it is moot.
- eburgio

I would say the following: an established top 6 forward (though not a superstar), a fringe player/prospect with upside (like say Bjugstad or Teravainen), another prospect (like say Danault or Hartman), and a first round pick

JJ, do you have a preference on what the next move should be....Sharp, Leddy, Rozy, Oduya, Steeger, etc...
- Beaks99

Aggressive gambler . . . Mr. Vegas . . . I'd move Sharp and hand the keys to Brandon Saad.

Bickell's already your other top 6 LW. I would say to Saad, we believe in you, we think you have all the potential in the world, no go out and succeed and we will pay you next summer.

So yeah, some of that saved cap room next summer would go to Saad, some to Kruger, and maybe you'd have a little left over to solve some other problems. But Sharp represents $6 million a year.

Other thing is, I have to believe you'd get a nice return in terms of something else the Hawks will need going forward: more prospects and/or picks.

I would say the following: an established top 6 forward (though not a superstar), a fringe player/prospect with upside (like say Bjugstad or Teravainen), another prospect (like say Danault or Hartman), and a first round pick
- John Jaeckel

It's an interesting topic, because I would be curious to see how many other organizations value Kane like the Hawks do and what value they place on his ability to get them to that next level. Not gonna happen, but excellent fodder for a place such as this.

I would say the following: an established top 6 forward (though not a superstar), a fringe player/prospect with upside (like say Bjugstad or Teravainen), another prospect (like say Danault or Hartman), and a first round pick
- John Jaeckel

I don't think I would do that from a Hawks standpoint. But hey, I'm not a GM. That said, if the prospects you picked out filled 2C and 3C for a bunch of years while the top 6 guy replaced him was pretty good (say James Neal) I guess it wouldn't hurt too bad.

I'm probably going to inject your previous points here, prospects are just that, think I'd have to have a good prospect but some more young NHL'ers in there as well.

Bulls fan here. Scottie Pippen was only on that "top 50 all-time" list because he was fresh in people's minds when that survey was done (2000?). Over time, he will fade to a "really nice #2 player", a great Robin if you have Batman.
- Cmonalready

And one of the - if not THE - best non-center defensive players in NBA history, on-ball and off-ball - mainly when they "couldn't" play zone.