And Hercshel Walker was traded too for what, 5 picks and 5 players that eventually led to the Cowboys winning a couple Super Bowls. And if memory serves the Oilers won the cup the year following trading Gretzky.

I'll use Hossa as an example of players being very productive in their 30's and Kieth too. I do agree I'd rather have a 27 yr old Kane than a 32 year old Kane. And I'd also agree with anyone who said Kane and Toews at 30 will have a lot of NHL mileage on them, more than most any NHL player at a similar age.

Again IMO if Kane and Toews avoid a serious injury they will still be elite players into their early 30's.
- Mr Ricochet

While that may be true that players can produce at a high level into their 30s, they're still better players when younger. Nobody here will tell you that Marian Hossa is not still a fantastic player, but the fact remains that he had 30+ goals 7 times through age 30 (and 40 three times) and only once since. He's also missed more games in the last 4 seasons due to injury than in the previous 11 combined.

Herschel Walker was traded by a 1 win terrible team, not a contender two years removed from the Super Bowl and one year removed from an overtime loss in a conference championship game. Likewise, when Eric Lindros was dealt for a ridiculous haul, it's not like Quebec/Colorado was a team with an open championship window.

Maybe it was the typos or my ADHD that caused my inability to follow. I understand the general conversation, but that post just befuddled me. Oh well. I'll go back and study it and maybe I'll understand the dissertation.
- cranktheradio

Don't mess with WIZ, he's forgot more than you and I combined about hockey

Hawks will probably lose Seabrook after two years.
- VANTEL

The difference between the Hawks and Pens and Nucs in my opinion is the Hawks built their team from the defense foward. Keith Seabs were in place and Jammer / Rozy added while 19&88 found their big league legs. Hossa put them over the top in 2010. Nucs built around Sedins bros and Pens around Sid /Malkin. Defence was an after thought and it generally is not successful when playoff hockey comes around.

While that may be true that players can produce at a high level into their 30s, they're still better players when younger. Nobody here will tell you that Marian Hossa is not still a fantastic player, but the fact remains that he had 30+ goals 7 times through age 30 (and 40 three times) and only once since. He's also missed more games in the last 4 seasons due to injury than in the previous 11 combined.

Herschel Walker was traded by a 1 win terrible team, not a contender two years removed from the Super Bowl and one year removed from an overtime loss in a conference championship game. Likewise, when Eric Lindros was dealt for a ridiculous haul, it's not like Quebec/Colorado was a team with an open championship window.
- Sandus

Al McGuire the TV commentator and great basketball coach said a team wants as many great players as it can get but no team can survive long term with more than one super star. When a team has two superstars, you are better to convert one of those superstars into a couple of great players.

Al McGuire the TV commentator and great basketball coach said a team wants as many great players as it can get but no team can survive long term with more than one super star. When a team has two superstars, you are better to convert one of those superstars into a couple of great players.
- spatso

Basketball is so much different than Hockey that it's hardly relevant. Plus the Jordan/Pippen led Bulls put pretty much proved him wrong anyways.

Basketball is so much different than Hockey that it's hardly relevant. Plus the Jordan/Pippen led Bulls put pretty much proved him wrong anyways.
- Ogilthorpe2

Ha, was just going to say that.

I hope you guys hang around for the inevitable backlash from some on this board. Trading Kane—if you set aside all the marketing and fan expectations—is an option. for some reason, a lot of Hawk fans have always assumed you couldn't get equal or greater value back—which is nonsense.

But this FO invests heavily in its stars, not just in salary but in building the team brand and multi-million dollar advertising expenditures.
- John Jaeckel

That was the first thing I thought about when I seen the 10.5 million for each player.

I would actually consider trading him for a couple really good players.

That was the first thing I thought about when I seen the 10.5 million for each player.

I would actually consider trading him for a couple really good players.
- jimmc7722

Or you could do the sane thing and trade the other Patrick and still have a legit shot to win it all this year.

Al McGuire the TV commentator and great basketball coach said a team wants as many great players as it can get but no team can survive long term with more than one super star. When a team has two superstars, you are better to convert one of those superstars into a couple of great players.
- spatso

What?

Al McGuire the TV commentator and great basketball coach said a team wants as many great players as it can get but no team can survive long term with more than one super star. When a team has two superstars, you are better to convert one of those superstars into a couple of great players.
- spatso

Not a slam at you, Spatso, but it has been interesting how the non-Hawk fans went from "You're going to lose Kane to Buffalo and/or Toews to Winnipeg" to "You'll never sign both of them because they want 12 million+ each" to "Now you're screwed because you signed them and they cost too much and you have too many superstars".

Or you could do the sane thing and trade the other Patrick and still have a legit shot to win it all this year.
- Ogilthorpe2

Or steeg and rozy and have an even better chance.

Or you could do the sane thing and trade the other Patrick and still have a legit shot to win it all this year.
- Ogilthorpe2

Not sure I see that happening anymore at least for this year but it's 10,000 x more realistic then trading Kane less than a week after his extension. This board never ceases to amaze me.

Toews isn't 4 million per year better than Bergeron

He's better, not 4 million better

Basketball is so much different than Hockey that it's hardly relevant. Plus the Jordan/Pippen led Bulls put pretty much proved him wrong anyways.
- Ogilthorpe2

I think that makes my point actually. Does anybody believe Pippen could have led the Hawks to championships without Jorden? Perfect case of a superstar and a great player. Nobody is confused about who is the superstar.

Basketball is so much different than Hockey that it's hardly relevant. Plus the Jordan/Pippen led Bulls put pretty much proved him wrong anyways.
- Ogilthorpe2

If it pleases the court allow me to introduce exhibit 2 into the record: Jabbar/Magic Johnson Lakers era.

I think that makes my point actually. Does anybody believe Pippen could have led the Hawks to championships without Jorden? Perfect case of a superstar and a great player. Nobody is confused about who is the superstar.
- spatso

Scottie Pippen voted by the NBA as one of the 50 greatest players of all time, but he's merely a "great player"?

I think that makes my point actually. Does anybody believe Pippen could have led the Hawks to championships without Jorden? Perfect case of a superstar and a great player. Nobody is confused about who is the superstar.
- spatso

No.

I would love to see a trade wioth Ottawa for one of Oduya or Hjalmarsson. I doubt Leddy would get moved - his cap hit is less that either of Hjalmarsson or Oduya.

There has been lots of chatter about a deal being in works.... Chicago is apparently high on Zack Smith ($1.8M), so a swap for Hjalmarsson ($4.1) would net $2.3M in cap room.

Now, straight up that looks like a steal for Ottawa, until you factor in the cap releif - one cannot underestimate that value of cap space.
- GadesnSens

NFW. one of the best shot-blocking D-men in the league, who can log big minutes, plays against the top opponents lines and is a steal at $4.1M, for FIVE more seasons? Nice try. No dice.

Toews isn't 4 million per year better than Bergeron

He's better, not 4 million better
- RoloTahmasee

Keep telling yourself that.

Not a good comparison anyways given their age difference.

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl 14m
StL coach Ken Hitchcock is high on Lehtora, believes Ott will make up for loss of Sobotka, says Elliott is No. 1.


Pretty much means Hitch's last season in STL then

Blues aint going anywhere with Elliot as the starter

career 2.55 GAA and .898 sv pct in the playoffs

The difference between the Hawks and Pens and Nucs in my opinion is the Hawks built their team from the defense foward. Keith Seabs were in place and Jammer / Rozy added while 19&88 found their big league legs. Hossa put them over the top in 2010. Nucs built around Sedins bros and Pens around Sid /Malkin. Defence was an after thought and it generally is not successful when playoff hockey comes around.
- Cup-Bearer

It's funny because the Penguins drafted lots of defensemen...mostly of the puck moving variety...and it probably had more to do with Bylsma and Shero's idea of style of play (engaging the defensemen).

I'm curious to see how the Penguin's defense looks under a different playing style/approach.

BTW...They didn't lose in the playoffs the last two years because of their defense...the lost because they didn't score.

Toews isn't 4 million per year better than Bergeron

He's better, not 4 million better
- RoloTahmasee

Is Marchand 3.8 million per yer better than Saad?

Toews isn't 4 million per year better than Bergeron

He's better, not 4 million better
- RoloTahmasee

I forgot, how many cups did Bergeron captain his team to?

It's funny because the Penguins drafted lots of defensemen...mostly of the puck moving variety...and it probably had more to do with Bylsma and Shero's idea of style of play (engaging the defensemen).

I'm curious to see how the Penguin's defense looks under a different playing style/approach.

BTW...They didn't lose in the playoffs the last two years because of their defense...the lost because they didn't score.
- icedog97

Crazy when you consider their top two centers are two of the best scorers and playmakers in the league.

Keep telling yourself that.

Not a good comparison anyways given their age difference.
- Ogilthorpe2

Not to mention Toews also has 2 cups compared to 1 for bergeron

Also, Toews the better offensive player and as good defensively

In 10 seasons, Bergeron has eclipsed 25 goals just twice

In 7 seasons, Toews has eclipsed 25 goals five times (and the other two times he didnt he had 23 and 24 goals in those seasons)