And this is exactly why you can't trade a player like Patrick Kane, no matter how much sense it makes from a hockey perspective. Kane is not only a face of the franchise but a face of the league for many newer fans. He has all the most marketable traits: he's flashy, he's American, he plays big in big games, and he likes to talk and be in the spotlight. It's hard to trade that away and convince all those newer Blackhawk fans in Chicago to stay aboard.
- Sandus

Gretzky was traded, Babe Ruth was traded. I'm not advocating it, but Kane can be traded too.

And you mention the value Kane has as a spokesman and/or face of a team. Well that would hold true for the team he's traded to, making him even more valuable in a trade than just his on ice value.

Kane and Toews will be in their prime 5-6 years into this deal and by then their cap hit, assuming they stay healthy, will be friendly. Much like Crosby and Malkin's will be.

As bad as it seems for clubs with dual superstars cap wise it's better than the alternative of having to pay big dollars on the free agent market for older players past their prime cuz they have nobody in the system that warrants that kind of money, or over pay for a kid like Niskanen.

It's up to the GM to make it work through shrewd trades, solid free agent signings to fill secondary needs, solid drafting and no bad contracts given out cuz you can't spend your way out of those mistakes in the Hawks' situation.

Just about every team that is up hard against the cap is trying to dump a player. Amazing how difficult it has become to even give away a big salary. Hawk fans assume that moving Sharp is an easy option when the time comes. May be shocked to discover that not many teams are ready to offer up very much for a 33 year old player making $6m. for 3 more years.
- spatso

I tend to agree with you but if Sharp was an UFA he would get signed to his current contract in a heart beat. Does that make cap sense?

I would love to see a trade wioth Ottawa for one of Oduya or Hjalmarsson. I doubt Leddy would get moved- his cap hit is less that either of Hjalmarsson or Oduya.

There has been lots of chatter about a deal being in works.... Chicago is apparently high on Zack Smith ($1.8M), so a swap for Hjalmarsson ($4.1) would net $2.3M in cap room.

Now, straight up that looks like a steal for Ottawa, until you factor in the cap releif - one cannot underestimate that value of cap space.
- GadesnSens

So is his talent level. Hjalmarsson at $4.1 for the next 5 years is an absolute steal, making him virtually untouchable as a trade candidate.

In fact cap crunches, it is easy to remember on weekends they demoted the younger guys back down to rockford, a penny here and penny there.

I bet Stan is open for business and few different levels but knows he has demotion options and ways to shed salary.

Sure...we have all convinced ourselves big move, but unless they find a adequate return, they are disassembly good ship Blackkhawk.

I totally under stand why any number cruncher realistically looks at defenseman 4- 6 and sees the present Cap problem solved there.

Next year, two of those guys are UFAs and the other is a RFA who who can try again to bridge or need to pony up if Leddy becomes a vital cog.

All three bring some attributes that make them desirable, Rozsival leadership and low end fit, Oduya is clearly solid middle pair guy and especially valauble if you think your transition is lacking a smart vet there.
Leddy clearly improved this season...if you are so prejudiced that you refuse to believe this, that is on you. Even in the playoffs there was an improvement in taking on attacks.
Believe me I won't be an apologist for Leddy, or Q.
But there is something there that is already there.

(Not comparing players but siting a situation: DeZotto had all that and a bag a chips offensively, but was always a negative factor and unsafe commodity in his defensive play and smarts. The contracts keep coming up and finally Rangers say, yeah all this possible potential to be a impact guy, but we still don't trust him...we want to win, but can we throw more of those big Cap dollars towards "potential" when othetr guys are gonna need contarct dollarts who ARE there?
They decide if Nashville is gonna give them a vet deeman under contract for FOUR more seasons might be a nice way to get now return and have one less agent to appease.)

So Leddy and his feet can bring a handsome return, but you are still tradingan NHL regular, on defense, not Mike Kostka, Mike Fistric, or Ben Lovejoy, because has higher end skills and "potential" and teams will alwatys be interested espacially teams desparate for that NOW>

Leddy is plug N play....the question remains when you plug him at the higher pairings does he make you comfotable at both ends?

I have convinced myself (and I don't read the cap hype or newpaper coverage guys who can spin a story from a Hawk TV camp wo minute interview...)
that Johns can play.
He started as RhLD some years back and although more comfortable on the RD, he provides an ingredient of toughness and up ice attack skills.
BUT...

I know I am convinced that the hawks would have to be completely convinced he stands up to the graduation in terms of playing at both ends at that speed.

They can handle errors by John, Dahlbeck Rundblad, etc. since it is the regular season.

But if you are trading part of the present group, you betetr get a handsome return not a gun to the head return.


Which brings me back to that subtraction coming from the forwards.

Bickell to me remains the Cap hit that should get you a physical player in return who is paid half as much....BUT you are abasically giving a guy away with real good hands and maybe they sweeten the pot with prospect...but just remember, if the goal is to shed 2.5 mil, and you take 1.5 mil "plugger" back....really, what kind of player are you REALLY getting...not much, right?

So I totally understand how the hawks may see Versteeg's lucrative salary discount as a really nice way to clear some space that along with the penny pinching of weekend demotions keeps them under.

What about something along the lines of:

Patrick Sharp for Lars Eller, Artturi Lehkonen and a pick? Lehkonen with familiarity with Terovainen, you add a Big 3rd line possibly 2nd line center to fit in nicely against the big boys of the East and a 2nd?
- willey101

So Montreal feeling so good about their foreward progression, should trade away Eller and trade away a small offensive future to hawks and still have the cash to re-up Subban and Sharp?

and TT doesn't need a girl friend / roommate right now....and if the hawks wanted Artturi Lehkonen wouldn't they have picked him with the 51st overall pick instead on Carl Dahlstrom in 2013?????

So Montreal feeling so good about their foreward progression, should trade away Eller and trade away a small offensive future to hawks and still have the cash to re-up Subban and Sharp?

and TT doesn't need a girl friend / roommate right now....and if the hawks wanted Artturi Lehkonen wouldn't they have picked him with the 51st overall pick instead on Carl Dahlstrom in 2013?????
- wiz1901

So your saying the Hawks would never have interest in any player that they could have drafted but didn't?

They would never have any interest in a guy like Kopitar, because if they did, why wouldn't they have just taken him instead of Jack Skille?

They are co"odds on favorite" according to vegas insider with boston!

Gretzky was traded, Babe Ruth was traded. I'm not advocating it, but Kane can be traded too.

And you mention the value Kane has as a spokesman and/or face of a team. Well that would hold true for the team he's traded to, making him even more valuable in a trade than just his on ice value.

Kane and Toews will be in their prime 5-6 years into this deal and by then their cap hit, assuming they stay healthy, will be friendly. Much like Crosby and Malkin's will be.

As bad as it seems for clubs with dual superstars cap wise it's better than the alternative of having to pay big dollars on the free agent market for older players past their prime cuz they have nobody in the system that warrants that kind of money, or over pay for a kid like Niskanen.

It's up to the GM to make it work through shrewd trades, solid free agent signings to fill secondary needs, solid drafting and no bad contracts given out cuz you can't spend your way out of those mistakes in the Hawks' situation.
- Mr Ricochet

Gretzky was traded from a team where hockey was the only game in town. Babe Ruth was sold and they regretted it for 86 years. The Blackhawks, for better or worse, are still building a fan base in a competitive market. Trading Patrick Kane (if he would even allow it) would set that back significantly.

I also can't figure out why people keep saying that Kane and Toews will be in their prime near the end of these deals. This isn't baseball where 30 years old is when you have your peak years. The majority of hockey players peak early and then level off for their final years before fully declining. Kane and Toews will not be in their primes in 5-6 years. They are in their primes NOW. And that's something significant to take into account when considering the future.

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but the Blackhawks have hired Kevin Dineen as the assistant coach to replace Kompon.

Of course, another Q crony.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=726166

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but the Blackhawks have hired Kevin Dineen as the assistant coach to replace Kompon.

Of course, another Q crony.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=726166
- TommyHawk

Maybe a Q crony, but this crony has a clue. I like this.

So Montreal feeling so good about their foreward progression, should trade away Eller and trade away a small offensive future to hawks and still have the cash to re-up Subban and Sharp?

and TT doesn't need a girl friend / roommate right now....and if the hawks wanted Artturi Lehkonen wouldn't they have picked him with the 51st overall pick instead on Carl Dahlstrom in 2013?????
- wiz1901

To answer your question, yes. Love Eller but habs have Galchenyuk who needs to play center. He's better than Eller and has been put on the wing to learn defensive side of the game but needs to play center. Plus Habs have a ton of offensive talent coming, of which 2-3 can potentially make the team this year in Andrighetto, Sekac and De La Rose and an ouside shot with Scherback.

Obviously moving Bourque or Moen makes alot more sense for the Habs but why on earth would Chicago remotely need these fringe NHLers.

As for the draft comment, no offense but that is ridiculous. Would Hawks take Subban or would that be a pass because Bill Sweatt is a better choice since that is who they drafted? NHL drafting is a crap shoot because you are taking 17-18 year old kids and guessing what they will be at the age of 25. Amazing players are passed all the time.

And before it is misconstrued. Not saying Lehkonen is an amazing player. Just think his familiarity with TT would be an asset.

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but the Blackhawks have hired Kevin Dineen as the assistant coach to replace Kompon.

Of course, another Q crony.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=726166
- TommyHawk

I like it. Good choice.

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but the Blackhawks have hired Kevin Dineen as the assistant coach to replace Kompon.

Of course, another Q crony.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=726166
- TommyHawk

I posted him and Ulf Samuelsson as options as a replacement for Kompon.

I think it's a great hiring. Dineen may be one of his old pals - but I think is a great fit!

I would like to see the hawks trade Leddy before Oduya to get under the cap for this year. This keeps your top 4 Defensemen set and should bring more back. Also this allows 2 of the following Runsbald, Johns, Dalhbeck or Clendening to rotate with Rosival and gain experience during the season to see who can start as the 5/6 d-men in 15-16. As good as Leddy is offensively, he seems to have more defensive lapses then offensive benefits, much like Keith Yandle in AZ.

Gretzky was traded from a team where hockey was the only game in town. Babe Ruth was sold and they regretted it for 86 years. The Blackhawks, for better or worse, are still building a fan base in a competitive market. Trading Patrick Kane (if he would even allow it) would set that back significantly.

I also can't figure out why people keep saying that Kane and Toews will be in their prime near the end of these deals. This isn't baseball where 30 years old is when you have your peak years. The majority of hockey players peak early and then level off for their final years before fully declining. Kane and Toews will not be in their primes in 5-6 years. They are in their primes NOW. And that's something significant to take into account when considering the future.
- Sandus

And Hercshel Walker was traded too for what, 5 picks and 5 players that eventually led to the Cowboys winning a couple Super Bowls. And if memory serves the Oilers won the cup the year following trading Gretzky.

I'll use Hossa as an example of players being very productive in their 30's and Kieth too. I do agree I'd rather have a 27 yr old Kane than a 32 year old Kane. And I'd also agree with anyone who said Kane and Toews at 30 will have a lot of NHL mileage on them, more than most any NHL player at a similar age.

Again IMO if Kane and Toews avoid a serious injury they will still be elite players into their early 30's.

So your saying the Hawks would never have interest in any player that they could have drafted but didn't?

They would never have any interest in a guy like Kopitar, because if they did, why wouldn't they have just taken him instead of Jack Skille?
- Ogilthorpe2

Nope what I am saying is they chose to go long range development on a big deeman and another smaller framed Finn was probably not what they are thinking NOW or later...
Granted... the game is now played by samller guys as well but how many can the hawks afford on their roster?
It ois nce as fans to think teams are reworking their rosters and GIVING away assets but to me Eller and Artturi Lekkonen. is pipe dream, maybe coming from a Hab fan boy.

and the fact Lekkonen has not taken ANY qualitative jump that makes anyone think he is more ready or more than a possible prospect.
No more no less.

Granted... the game is now played by samller guys as well but how many can the hawks afford on their roster?


and you know what ? I just don't think habs would give THAT much.

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but the Blackhawks have hired Kevin Dineen as the assistant coach to replace Kompon.

Of course, another Q crony.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=726166
- TommyHawk

Is he though? I don't think they coached together, only played together. Plus Dineen bought the bottom feeding Panthers to the playoffs, and he made Kris Versteeg a legitimate top line player. If that's not magic, I don't know what is.

So your saying the Hawks would never have interest in any player that they could have drafted but didn't?

They would never have any interest in a guy like Kopitar, because if they did, why wouldn't they have just taken him instead of Jack Skille?
- Ogilthorpe2

I wish you hadn't reminded me about the Kopitar/Skille incident. You just ruined my morning.

Of course the cap would've kept us from keeping him anyway. That's one thing that I don't like about the NHL salary cap. It takes so long for players to develop in lower leagues that by the time they get up and perform well you only have a couple of years before you are shelling out big bucks to keep them.

Kevin Dineen is an absolute tremendous addition to help our "girls" through the battle s they will face.

Joking, but this guy is a pro, a winner in every sense, and a great signing!

I AM happy for you....and you will have lots of reading time now that your team is in rework mode....
- wiz1901

Again, what? You seem to write a lot of incoherent nonsense. And I mean A LOT!
Also, how does my team being in "rework" mode effect my time to read. It actually makes the offseason MORE interesting. This comment would be better aimed at a fan of a team that isn't a perennial contender.
And my question was honest...could you summarize in 1000 words or less please?

Kevin Dineen is an absolute tremendous addition to help our "girls" through the battle s they will face.

Joking, but this guy is a pro, a winner in every sense, and a great signing!
- wiz1901

Agreed

I feel 100x better about Dineen as a new assistant than I did about when we brought on Kompon

Again, what? You seem to write a lot of incoherent nonsense. And I mean A LOT!
Also, how does my team being in "rework" mode effect my time to read. It actually makes the offseason MORE interesting. This comment would be better aimed at a fan of a team that isn't a perennial contender.
And my question was honest...could you summarize in 1000 words or less please?
- cranktheradio

Not to put words in Wiz' post -- but I think he did.

Was talking about whether we launch Oduya, Leddy or Rozsival and what that might mean. And also instead, whether we launch a forward instead (Sharp? Bickell? Versteeg?).

Thought it was pretty simple.

I've mentioned this before but I saw an interview with Bowman a couple of years ago that the plan was to bring 2-3 kids up every year and keep rolling the roster over.

At the time I thought that seemed pretty excessive but it's starting to look like that's exactly what you need to do in this salary cap world. You can see that happening in the last couple of years we've had Saad, Shaw, Smith, Morin,Raanta and Dahlbeck all being worked into the lineup in various roles.


I think SB probably thinks that things are going according to plan and the only curveball was the cap coming in 2-3 million less than we thought it would be (even though he says that they planned on the $69m and have a plan for that).

Not to put words in Wiz' post -- but I think he did.

Was talking about whether we launch Oduya, Leddy or Rozsival and what that might mean. And also instead, whether we launch a forward instead (Sharp? Bickell? Versteeg?).

Thought it was pretty simple.
- savvyone-1

Maybe it was the typos or my ADHD that caused my inability to follow. I understand the general conversation, but that post just befuddled me. Oh well. I'll go back and study it and maybe I'll understand the dissertation.

Nope what I am saying is they chose to go long range development on a big deeman and another smaller framed Finn was probably not what they are thinking NOW or later...
Granted... the game is now played by samller guys as well but how many can the hawks afford on their roster?
It ois nce as fans to think teams are reworking their rosters and GIVING away assets but to me Eller and Artturi L. is pipe dream, maybe coming from a Hab fan boy.
No more no less.

Granted... the game is now played by samller guys as well but how many can the hawks afford on their roster?


and you know what ? I just don't think habs would give THAT much.
- wiz1901

I agree. Hawks need to fix a minor problem this year. But, more important, need to find preemptive strategy for next year and beyond. This year the problem is not complex. Next year it becomes potentially catastrophic and without an effective strategy you put at risk the possibility of losing young players like Saad, Kruger or Leddy at a discount rate.

Short term the Hawks need to give up salary without taking a lot of salary back. For example, someone suggested that the Hawks might look to deal Sharp for Eller. But, Eller is a RFA and probably looking for $3.0m short term and more beyond.

Far better for the Hawks to trade Sharp for picks/prospects.

Second choice trade him for a player on a great contract (Zake Smith, 3 more years at $1.9m).