In my opinion, that statement alone speaks volumes of Armstrong's negotiation tactics.
- Trust In Jarmo

Tell me who said this in another thread:

"Stick to your guns Jarmo. Budge very little on the $$. And do NOT budge at all on the length. "



Biased, party of one. Your table is ready. Biased.........party of one......

You're a hoot, dude.

Tell me who said this in another thread:

"Stick to your guns Jarmo. Budge very little on the $$. And do NOT budge at all on the length. "



Biased, party of one. Your table is ready. Biased.........party of one......

You're a hoot, dude.
- bcallaway

Callaway, That statement was made when we are talking about $6 to $7 million per season for Ryan Johansen. Also, a man that is a RFA, not a UFA.

You budge very little on the $$ when you are dealing with a Restricted Free Agent who is about to get paid huge money in 2 or 3 years. You don't want to hand out a 4 year contract and make Ryan a UFA in 4 years...give him a 2 or 3 year bridge deal and work with him being a RFA again. Hence, don't budge on the length.

You don't stay strong on a 1 year deal who is a very good unrestricted free agent at a low offer of $2.4 to $3 million.

We are talking about a mere 600K swing from where Armstrong was and where Sobotka was. That's when you budge. The Blues can piss 600K away...especially since we are 10 days past free agency and there isn't much more to sign. The Blues are just trying to pocket that 600K...not use it on someone else.

And now you have Ott instead of Sobotka.

He had an opt out clause after every year.

If he didn't want to leave the NHL, why did he over 300k? It goes both ways.

He wanted to cash in on UFA. If he really wanted to do that and stay in the NHL, I don't see what the problem it's with 2.7. Makes no sense to me.

If Armstrong caves in and gives up more with the threat of leaving for the KHL, he will have issues going forward in negotiations.

In the end, neither are bad guys. This is what happens sometimes when two parties have different values.
- carcus

This is the key.....and this is what ALL the GM's will look at. Put yourself in Armies shoes. If you were negotiating in good faith with a player (which I believe he was even at $2.7M) how would you feel if all of the sudden the player threatened to leave if you didnt give him what he wanted? You cannot conduct business that way. This was almost unfair tactics on Sobi's part as far as I'm concerned. The NHL cannot allow the threat of leaving for the KHL to influence their decisions on contacts. You think contracts are high now?

Looks like today they are saying his contract was 3 years $4.3M, which is the equivalent of over $6M in US NHL dollars (because of taxes)....but this isnt about money.

Agree. For a team that wants to pride itself on puck possession its going to more than hurt to lose the best face off man in the NHL. He was also a valuable defensive player and PK.

Meanwhile Ott (while a good face off man himself) racked up minuses at a record clip last year.

Not only am I sour on Ott but I was incredibly sour as to how Hitchcock tried to use him. Somewhere along the line Hitch had convinced himself that Ott was the everyman, playing him in the top six and the power play and all kinds of stupid situations he didn't belong.

Hate to see this marriage continue.
- bcallaway

Yep! My one goal for this offseason was to be "Ott-less" by the end of it...alas

Callaway, That statement was made when we are talking about $6 to $7 million per season for Ryan Johansen. Also, a man that is a RFA, not a UFA.

You budge very little on the $$ when you are dealing with a Restricted Free Agent who is about to get paid huge money in 2 or 3 years. You don't want to hand out a 4 year contract and make Ryan a UFA in 4 years...give him a 2 or 3 year bridge deal and work with him being a RFA again. Hence, don't budge on the length.

You don't stay strong on a 1 year deal who is a very good unrestricted free agent at a low offer of $2.4 to $3 million.

We are talking about a mere 600K swing from where Armstrong was and where Sobotka was. That's when you budge. The Blues can piss 600K away...especially since we are 10 days past free agency and there isn't much more to sign. The Blues are just trying to pocket that 600K...not use it on someone else.

And now you have Ott instead of Sobotka.
- Trust In Jarmo

The rules pretty much stay the same, as long as you have the negotiating upper hand you budget and slot guys where they belong and they have the choice of playing in the NHL or not.

Sobotka had the added leverage of being able to choose a deal in the KHL, good for him. I think both sides did the right thing for them.

I wouldn't have handled it any different. You'd stand on your chair and applaud if your boy was doing this.

It doesn't matter what Doug Armstrong does, you will not acknowledge any moves as good. Too biased.

The rules pretty much stay the same, as long as you have the negotiating upper hand you budget and slot guys where they belong and they have the choice of playing in the NHL or not.

Sobotka had the added leverage of being able to choose a deal in the KHL, good for him. I think both sides did the right thing for them.

I wouldn't have handled it any different. You'd stand on your chair and applaud if your boy was doing this.

It doesn't matter what Doug Armstrong does, you will not acknowledge any moves as good. Too biased.
- bcallaway

And you guys hate anyone that doesn't sign with the Blues. Even former players.

I have seen so much biased by many Blues fans on this topic today.

Sobotka was loved...now he is hated.

And you can never admit when Blues front office makes a mistake. Has Armstrong EVER made a mistake in your mind Callaway?

Probably not...

And you guys hate anyone that doesn't sign with the Blues. Even former players.

I have seen so much biased by many Blues fans on this topic today.

Sobotka was loved...now he is hated.

And you can never admit when Blues front office makes a mistake. Has Armstrong EVER made a mistake in your mind Callaway?
- Trust In Jarmo

There's a lot of ex-Blues I still like. I have no hate for Sobotka, I should have said in my previous post that Sobotka did the right thing for him. Oh wait, I did say that.

And to answer your question about Armstrong - scroll up a bit and read my thought on signing Steve Ott and you'll see I have no issues in calling a spade a spade.

If you don't think I regularly criticize the Blues when I don't agree with a move, well you just flat-out ain't paying attention, son.

Sheesh.

And you guys hate anyone that doesn't sign with the Blues. Even former players.

I have seen so much biased by many Blues fans on this topic today.

Sobotka was loved...now he is hated.

And you can never admit when Blues front office makes a mistake. Has Armstrong EVER made a mistake in your mind Callaway?

Probably not...
- Trust In Jarmo

I don't see any sobotka hate there. He stated both sides did what was right for them, which is agreeable.

In my opinion, that statement alone speaks volumes of Armstrong's negotiation tactics.
- Trust In Jarmo

Unless you're an agent, trying to determine negotiating tactics is reading tarot cards. Let's keep in mind Sobotka's agent is the guy who got the KHL payday for Kovalchuk. Maybe this says more about Sobotka's agent.

Additionally, the tax situation in Russia clearly benefits the KHL. If they were $300,000 apart in U.S. dollars, we're talking about the difference between the U.S. tax system and the KHL getting contracts TAX FREE.

In my book Ott has the chance to start the year between Oshie and Berglund and can work his way into a fourth-line role should he falter. In that case, Berglund moves back to center and plays with Osh and Paajarvi or the new Swede. Ott's deal is quite steep for a spare part...

There's a lot of ex-Blues I still like. I have no hate for Sobotka, I should have said in my previous post that Sobotka did the right thing for him. Oh wait, I did say that.

And to answer your question about Armstrong - scroll up a bit and read my thought on signing Steve Ott and you'll see I have no issues in calling a spade a spade.

If you don't think I regularly criticize the Blues when I don't agree with a move, well you just flat-out ain't paying attention, son.

Sheesh.
- bcallaway

I never said you hate Sobotka for leaving. I said Blues fans. Read some other posts and boards besides mine and you will see it....

Sounds like both sides were too proud to compromise more than anything else.

Lets see what $$ the arbitrator awards. Then we can judge.

I never said you hate Sobotka for leaving. I said Blues fans. Read some other posts and boards besides mine and you will see it....
- Trust In Jarmo

No thanks.

No thanks.
- bcallaway

Nobody here is killing Sobotka. I am sure there are some somewhere. There are plenty of crazy people and a lot of them are on the internet.

Callaway, That statement was made when we are talking about $6 to $7 million per season for Ryan Johansen. Also, a man that is a RFA, not a UFA.

You budge very little on the $$ when you are dealing with a Restricted Free Agent who is about to get paid huge money in 2 or 3 years. You don't want to hand out a 4 year contract and make Ryan a UFA in 4 years...give him a 2 or 3 year bridge deal and work with him being a RFA again. Hence, don't budge on the length.

You don't stay strong on a 1 year deal who is a very good unrestricted free agent at a low offer of $2.4 to $3 million.

We are talking about a mere 600K swing from where Armstrong was and where Sobotka was. That's when you budge. The Blues can piss 600K away...especially since we are 10 days past free agency and there isn't much more to sign. The Blues are just trying to pocket that 600K...not use it on someone else.

And now you have Ott instead of Sobotka.
- Trust In Jarmo

1. Sobotka is Restricted
2. The Blues have to sign Schwartz still. There will be no money to pocket.

I loved watched Sobi run around like he was 10 feet tall, but this is very minor considering his history. He can NOT come back to the NHL for a different team without the Blues getting compensated, so this makes no sense for him. He truly is taking his ball and going home (or closer to it). That is his right, but when he comes back, he will still be a Blue. If we lose the Cup due to Ott playing instead of Sobi, then I will eat my words. But I'm sure as a life-long Blues fan, that we will find a completely different reason for losing in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

1. Sobotka is Restricted
2. The Blues have to sign Schwartz still. There will be no money to pocket.

I loved watched Sobi run around like he was 10 feet tall, but this is very minor considering his history. He can come back to the NHL for a different team without the Blues getting compensated, so this makes no sense for him. He truly is taking his ball and going home (or closer to it). That is his right, but when he comes back, he will still be a Blue. If we lose the Cup due to Ott playing instead of Sobi, then I will eat my words. But I'm sure as a life-long Blues fan, that we will find a completely different reason for losing in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

- bluenoter

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Im saying Sobotka gets awarded 2.1 to 2.7 million at hearing. No way its over 3 million.

.................................

You don't stay strong on a 1 year deal who is a very good unrestricted free agent at a low offer of $2.4 to $3 million.

.................................

And now you have Ott instead of Sobotka.
- Trust In Jarmo

Sobotka is a RFA.

And the second part is not a big deal.

Nobody here is killing Sobotka. I am sure there are some somewhere. There are plenty of crazy people and a lot of them are on the internet.
- carcus

I cant believe the way people are female doging that DA should have given Sobotka whatever he wanted. What the hell is wrong with people?

Im saying Sobotka gets awarded 2.1 to 2.7 million at hearing. No way its over 3 million.
- gobluenotes

It will be closer to 2 million than 3 million. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't over 2.

Sobotka wanted too much. Especially for his role on this team. He was going to be a 3rd or 4th liner, with potentially spot duty if there are injuries to the top 6.

Really, anything over 2.5 is way too much. So I am glad that he didn't accept 2.7 and moved on.

I cant believe the way people are female doging that DA should have given Sobotka whatever he wanted. What the hell is wrong with people?
- gobluenotes

Not sure. It is crazy, because there is no way he should be making $3M in the NHL. Even with inflated contracts.

His size/injury history/lack of offense/role he would play on this team all scream "Not a $3M player".

But he works hard, he has gumption. That is loved in St Louis. And the reason why I still see Bob Bassen jerseys around town. I liked Sobotka. A lot. But he will not be missed by the team, the Blues play will not take a hit.

1. Sobotka is Restricted.
- bluenoter

I missed that. My fault.

It will be closer to 2 million than 3 million. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't over 2.

Sobotka wanted too much. Especially for his role on this team. He was going to be a 3rd or 4th liner, with potentially spot duty if there are injuries to the top 6.

Really, anything over 2.5 is way too much. So I am glad that he didn't accept 2.7 and moved on.
- carcus

Still think Blues make a trade.

I missed that. My fault.
- Trust In Jarmo

Does that change your thinking at all with how Doug handled the negotiations?

Not sure. It is crazy, because there is no way he should be making $3M in the NHL. Even with inflated contracts.

His size/injury history/lack of offense/role he would play on this team all scream "Not a $3M player".

But he works hard, he has gumption. That is loved in St Louis. And the reason why I still see Bob Bassen jerseys around town. I liked Sobotka. A lot. But he will not be missed by the team, the Blues play will not take a hit.
- carcus

+1