Corsi numbers for Schenn and Simmonds were very strong with both Raffl and Hartnell. I just think they're both good players. Raffl's problem is his shooting. He creates chances and does everything else well, but he didn't bury his chances.
- PhillySportsGuy

Nonsense. He won the 2014 Calder in my NHL14 with a 32-goal season (as a 3rd line forward).

I don't think Raffl is a long term solution at 1LW or can do everything Hartnell did. I just don't think Columbus fans should expect Hartnell to put up Corsi numbers in the mid 50s without players like Giroux and Voracek beside him.
- Feanor

He'll probably have Johansson

Were G and Jake better off w/ Hartsy as a linemate than anybody else they tried? Definitely, but then again I think that speaks volumes about the LW depth more than anything.

Did Hartsy make other lines "better"? You'd have to consider how many games he actually spent on other lines and the kind of guys he was replacing (hint: Vinny).

The numbers favor him, but jumping to the conclusion that he's a possession-critical player is a bit of a hasty thing.
- Tomahawk

That's kind of where I'm at. I feel like obviously an offensive weapon like Hartnell is going to have better advanced stats than an Umberger who (as far as I know) is deployed in the less advantageous defensive situations. Is it kosher to assume a guy used in a defensive role is pretty much necessarily going to see more corsi events against?

Corsi numbers for Schenn and Simmonds were very strong with both Raffl and Hartnell. I just think they're both good players. Raffl's problem is his shooting. He creates chances and does everything else well, but he didn't bury his chances.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yea if Raffl can develop a scoring touch, he's going to be a really solid player.

wait... did you just seriously say, IF the Flyers had a buy out, and IF Vinny wasnt around.. the Flyers would have bought out Hartnell?

I know Kevin Bacon.
- jak521

Unless you think the flyers really wanted umberger and his albatross of a contract?

Nonsense. He won the 2014 Calder in my NHL14 with a 32-goal season (as a 3rd line forward).
- jmatchett383

Thats all I need to hear. Stick him on the top line

I'm curious to see how Raffl performs in his 2nd year in the NHL. And Bellemare, at 29, in his first. Real curious.

Hartnell is definitely going to struggle for at least a little while without G.
- wolfhounds

I think the opposite of Hartnell.. He is going to a good young fast team with some pretty talented players.. He will do well there.

Can they expect him to put up goals (PP more than 5v5), skate his best (what ever that is), give 110% every night, be a physical player who forechecks hard, and can help keep the locker room light when the team's down?
- jmatchett383

Raffl seems to have a special relationship with G already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1RHS8_TwJc

Yea if Raffl can develop a scoring touch, he's going to be a really solid player.
- MJL

If his shooting improves, I think he can play 1LW. It would allow them to swap out Jake for Simmonds on the top line too.

I think the opposite of Hartnell.. He is going to a good young fast team with some pretty talented players.. He will do well there.
- jak521

How so? He's slow, he's old, he takes bad penalties, he's fat and lazy. How will that help a young fast team?

Can they expect him to put up goals (PP more than 5v5), skate his best (what ever that is), give 110% every night, be a physical player who forechecks hard, and can help keep the locker room light when the team's down?
- jmatchett383

Yes. Of course. It's what he does. Asking that question doesn't even make sense. Do you doubt him?

Unless you think the flyers really wanted umberger and his albatross of a contract?
- Just5

I really dont know what to think. I, personally, would have rather seen them add a couple of picks for Hartnell. Who knows what offers they actually had, but taking Umberger in the deal is kind of a head scratcher. I think if, like you are saying, it was a way to unload Hartnells contract, they would have taken picks. They must have really wanted Umberger.

I think the opposite of Hartnell.. He is going to a good young fast team with some pretty talented players.. He will do well there.
- jak521

Maybe. But the way G fed him the puck, that was impressive, especially on the PP. We'll just have to wait and see.

Is it October yet?

I think for sure that the 2 years was a big factor. I don't think the versatility was the biggest reason for the trade, but just a byproduct of it, that will be a nice trait to have in a player. I think when looking at it, that they are better in some areas, and worse in others with the deal. How it turns out is really going to be about how it changes the team, if at all. And if other players can take a bigger chunk of offensive responsibility.
- MJL

I think the versitility helps out in allowing the roster to move guys around to get the best out of them. Umberger can move up and down the lineup where Hartnell was really only effective in a top 6 role and PP. Now they can move one of their core young guys onto the PP and you can also play with the lineup more. Now schenn can play 2nd line center or first line wing. Raffl can move up and down. Read can move up and down. Vinny could even see time with giroux if not moved or play 2nd line center. I just think it allows a little more flexibility and also it being 2 years shorter on the contract.

How so? He's slow, he's old, he takes bad penalties, he's fat and lazy. How will that help a young fast team?
- jmatchett383

He will eat all of their junk food, and that will keep the rest of the players fit.

Yes. Of course. It's what he does. Asking that question doesn't even make sense. Do you doubt him?


- wolfhounds

TIL that Jesus is so good he doesn't need a goalie behind him.

Yes. Of course. It's what he does. Asking that question doesn't even make sense. Do you doubt him?


- wolfhounds

This doesn't even make sense. Where is his Raptor head?

I think the opposite of Hartnell.. He is going to a good young fast team with some pretty talented players.. He will do well there.
- jak521

I agree.

Maybe. But the way G fed him the puck, that was impressive, especially on the PP. We'll just have to wait and see.

Is it October yet?
- wolfhounds

But the point I have made numerous times... He has been successful with and without G. He routinely (over his career) has been on the top producing line.

I guess we'll see. Most NHL analysts didn't really like the move either.
- PhillySportsGuy

Analysts are going to look at last years stats and career years. I just don't buy that national analysts watch enough of any team to understand subtleties within a team. They don't need to, just look at stats and have a strong opinion is all that's really necessary to be interesting. I'm not saying I love this trade. I don't, but not do I think it's aweful. It's in the "Let's see" category.

As far as trade value, Hartnell's contract could have been seen as having negative value. There might have been 4 offers on the table, but all 4 had bad contracts coming back. Umberger might have been the only situation that was palatable. I still would have thought they could have gotten more than a 4th rounder coming back, but I'm sure Hextall wanted a higher pick, but couldn't get it. That's pretty telling to me.

As far as Hartnell having more value on the team than what came back, it's obvious that Hexy and Berube wanted him gone

If his shooting improves, I think he can play 1LW. It would allow them to swap out Jake for Simmonds on the top line too.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't see him as a first line player at any point. Depending on how much offense he can produce. I see his high side as a 2nd line winger, but more likely a 3rd line player who can chip in some goals, and play a solid all around game, and contribute in a lot of areas.

This doesn't even make sense. Where is his Raptor head?
- PhillySportsGuy

It's an old picture, before Raptor Jesus thought people would accept him for what he really is...

Today's a dark day
- Winning

It sure is. The Flyers didn't land the TerminOTTar. Might as well fold up shop.

With fitness and maturity or with taking bad penalties?
- jak521

I think with fitness. I can only look at his on ice production to come to this conclusion. I have no other basis for my opinion.

It sure is. The Flyers didn't land the TerminOTTar. Might as well fold up shop.
- PLindbergh31

im on suicide watcj