Sobotka leaving for KHL. That explains the Ott signing.
- PhillySportsGuy

Not sure if it was discussed, but that 1 more year and $1.6M more per year than I would have offered. Glad we stayed away.

I think that was the butter. I just get the feeling that Hartnell and Berube did not see eye to eye on the stupid penalties. He mentioned disciplined play enough times in his STH meet and greet thingie.

I dont think Berube wants to be the most penalized team in the league anymore. He wants to spare the team some of those hard minutes. And a domino effect will be to get Couturier out for more positive shifts, since he wont be on the bench after killing one of Hartnells penalties so often.
- MBFlyerfan

Reducing penalties and being a more disciplined team would be an awesome change for the Flyers. I can see that being a reason.

Hexy in the matrix, dodgin them bullets.
- Tomahawk

Glad for that...you have no idea how glad.

just trying to fit in...
- aightwebang17

it's making everyone uncomfortable

Grossmann's CORSI is the worst CORSI in the history of CORSI

Hartnell is the worst player in the NHL, ever.

Advanced stats aren't true. Remedial stats are true, and once you think about it in context, you'll see that you're wrong. It's all heresay.
- jmatchett383

You didn't mention Amac's advanced stats though

There seemed to be a general consensus among their fans. That's what scares me. If we got rid of Coburn, some people would be happy, but most of us would be upset if the return wasn't very good.

Normally, the initial feeling after a trade is accurate. At least for me it is.
- PhillySportsGuy

That depends on what segment of Flyers fans you are talking to. It's really only here I have seen people have a reasonable view on Coburn. If you go on other Flyer threads most would trade him for a bag of pucks. It's possible the vocal Columbus fans are of the WIP variety.

Sobotka leaving for KHL. That explains the Ott signing.
- PhillySportsGuy

Frank Sobotka? I think he's dead.

Reducing penalties and being a more disciplined team would be an awesome change for the Flyers. I can see that being a reason.
- wolfhounds

Well, yes, Hartnell was only a net negative without any positive on-ice and off-ice qualities.

Sobotka leaving for KHL. That explains the Ott signing.
- PhillySportsGuy

Whoaaaaaaaa. That is a bombshell on the blues. Sobotka is a really decent player.

Hartnell has been a member of a number of lines that played well and gelled in his time as a Flyer. I think that says a lot about his tenure as a Flyer. He's been an effective power forward for the team.
- MJL

I think Hartnell did do things well when he was here. He was a very good soldier and fan favorite. BUt i think what happened with him was when he did something dumb it was at terrible tiimeing. Bad penalties in the offensive zone, blind cross ice passes that seemed to lead to great scoring chances, just things that were very easy to notice.

I liked Hartnell and the effort he gave but I also see the reason for this trade. We will see if it works out but having Umberger in the lineup will allow for more roster flexibility and I think he just fits the new mantra of accountability and defensive awarness.

You didn't mention Amac's advanced stats though
- PhillySportsGuy

AMac backs in too much

No, he doesn't.

Yes, he does.

No, he doesn't.

- fast forward 25 days -

No, he doesn't, and you're wrong

Banned

He's definitely a reliable producer, but he's not the type of guy who can just join any line and improve their shot differential the way a player like Voracek could with his speed and ability to hang on to the puck for long periods.

Giroux had basically the same CF% playing with Raffl as he did with Hartnell.
- Feanor

Even when he was not on the "#1" line... his line, since he has been a Flyer, has always been the most offensively productive.

Whether it was he Carter and Lupul, Briere and Leino, Jagr and G, etc. etc.

Why not Simmer on L1? He's got chemistry w/ G and Jake from the PP.
- Tomahawk

Is Simmer a soley RW player?

Well, yes, Hartnell was only a net negative without any positive on-ice and off-ice qualities.
- jmatchett383

Like drawing a cirlcle with words...

Maybe. I have no idea. But I just never got the feeling that Hartnell was an off-ice liability, or came to camp grossly out of shape. If we're going to talk fitting into and adhering to a system (or not), as Bill implied, that I can see as a reason for his trade.

And as far as Umberger and the Columbus fans go, I'm going to guess once Umby made it clear he wanted out of town, some goodwill was lost.

I'm hoping the back isn't much of an issue for him, or VL, this coming season. But no doubt, we have chemistry and performance question marks.
- wolfhounds

I think they felt Hartnell wasn't going to buy in to Berube's system/way he wanted to run the team. For a guy who has played and lived in Philly area for a while, he seemed all to happy to waive his NTC pretty quickly. I imagine Hexy didn't have the most flattering things to say when they spoke on the phone about waiving his NTC.

Is Simmer a soley RW player?
- mmcclatchy

Thats what I thought. And he can barely play in his own end at his natural position

Frank Sobotka? I think he's dead.


- johndewar

Statute of limitations on spoilers for that series expire already?

Wow, terrible tradeoff for them... Vlady could do it all.
- Tomahawk

Definitely. Sobotka is what some people think Ott is.

hi bill i asked this of the threadlings yesterday, curious what your response would be..

are you really comfortable with the idea of umberger on the top line?

i am not.
- -davies-

Not what I would ideally want, no.

I think Hartnell did do things well when he was here. He was a very good soldier and fan favorite. BUt i think what happened with him was when he did something dumb it was at terrible tiimeing. Bad penalties in the offensive zone, blind cross ice passes that seemed to lead to great scoring chances, just things that were very easy to notice.

I liked Hartnell and the effort he gave but I also see the reason for this trade. We will see if it works out but having Umberger in the lineup will allow for more roster flexibility and I think he just fits the new mantra of accountability and defensive awarness.
- J35Bacher

Honestly... the only real value I see in the trade is that 2 years have been shaved off, and there are gonna be some players needing to be re-signed during those years.

It was a completely lateral move. I dont by into the fact that he is so versatile that it makes him that valuable. He was a buy out candidate.

Definitely. Sobotka is what some people think Ott is.
- PhillySportsGuy

Trading him away was probably one of Chiarelli's few f-ups.

That depends on what segment of Flyers fans you are talking to. It's really only here I have seen people have a reasonable view on Coburn. If you go on other Flyer threads most would trade him for a bag of pucks. It's possible the vocal Columbus fans are of the WIP variety.
- mmcclatchy

I guess we'll see. Most NHL analysts didn't really like the move either.

He's definitely a reliable producer, but he's not the type of guy who can just join any line and improve their shot differential the way a player like Voracek could with his speed and ability to hang on to the puck for long periods.

Giroux had basically the same CF% playing with Raffl as he did with Hartnell.
- Feanor

There's far more to Hockey then CF%. Hartnell is a support player. He's not a player who is going to be the key player and catalyst on a line. But he's going to get in on the forecheck, crash the net, and get his share of points when he's on his game. But unfortunately he can also be inconsistent and undisciplined to the point where he becomes maddening to watch at times. But overall a good player.

AMac backs in too much

No, he doesn't.

Yes, he does.

No, he doesn't.

- fast forward 25 days -

No, he doesn't, and you're wrong

Banned
- jmatchett383

Is Simmer a soley RW player?
- mmcclatchy

Thats been pretty much his role so far through his career