I keep saying it, but the Leafs were 3rd in teh east before Bernier got injured.

That was them overacheiving... but I take the 100+ game sample prior to having no good goalie over the 15 game sample that followed.

Barring some catastrophic injury, I think this team will be in the playoffs.

Have at it, asp.
- Feeling Glucky?

they weren't in the playoffs because before the Olympics they scored 4 goals 25 times. after the Olympics they scored 4 goals once
they were so bad.
if they don't score 4 on most nights they lose no matter who was in net

comparing Kessel to Toews is quite silly. Toews is hands down a better nad more valuable player. Kessel and Kane are far closer.
- DoubleDown

then again....

Well, I don't know... seems like agents run the show when it comes to money. And let's face it, you, and me, would milk every single penny if we were in their position.
- Pecafan Fan

Toews and Kane played massive, massive roles on 2 Cup winners. they have pedigree. that's enough to tack on $1-$2 million in AAV.

Well, I don't know... seems like agents run the show when it comes to money. And let's face it, you, and me, would milk every single penny if we were in their position.
- Pecafan Fan

Honestly, maybe not. Depends on what you want.

Do you want to ride "2 cups in a 4 year span" for a career or would you want to build a modern day dynasty the likes of which will be remembered for decades to come.

OR do you want to just make as much money now after winning everything?

I can see both points. I just prefer the former.

then again....


- Pecafan Fan

OK put Kane on the Leafs and Kessel on the Hawks.

Toews is being selfish. He won't get called on it because the media blows him daily.
- RogerRoeper

Gotta disagree.

look how much Crosby makes, and Malkin.

there are several players making MORE than Toews, and some are not nearly as valuable as he is.

He is not being selfish at all, hes making market money.

Christ people just spent a couple pages calling Tavares stupid for signing for so little, which was practically the same contract Toews signed after his ELC.

Gotta disagree.

look how much Crosby makes, and Malkin.

there are several players making MORE than Toews, and some are not nearly as valuable as he is.

He is not being selfish at all, hes making market money.

Christ people just spent a couple pages calling Tavares stupid for signing for so little, which was practically the same contract Toews signed after his ELC.
- Badge

yep he has earned that contract.

Of course I see the value. I just think 10.5 million is ridiculous and very, very selfish.
- RogerRoeper

ok, here's the issue;

you think Kessel at 8 is a steal, which implies you think his value is higher, lets say around 9M.

But at the same time, you think Toews, who brings similar offense(though admittedly a bit less), but far more in the way of defense and leadership is ridiculous at 10.5.

saying 10.5 is ridiculous implies you think he's worth less than that. Is overpaying a guy 1.5(just for argument's sake) ridiculous? I don't think so. 1.5 gets you a steal in Santorelli, and it's about average for a good veteran 4th liner. Saying 10.5 is a ridiculous, selfish contract implies you think he's worth less than 9.

Now, just about anybody would take Toews over Kessel... he just brings so much more to the game. But you're implying that Kessel>=Toews.

Maybe you don't mean to say that. But that's the implication.

Honestly, maybe not. Depends on what you want.

Do you want to ride "2 cups in a 4 year span" for a career or would you want to build a modern day dynasty the likes of which will be remembered for decades to come.

OR do you want to just make as much money now after winning everything?

I can see both points. I just prefer the former.
- Aaron_85

5 players make more than Toews will next season.

Are there 5 players you would rather have over Toews

OK put Kane on the Leafs and Kessel on the Hawks.
- DoubleDown

Well, that's not exactly how it works...

yep he has earned that contract.
- DoubleDown

won a Conn Smythe on his ELC.

Kane and Toews are THE REASON Chicago is a profitable franchise again. God Damned right he earned it.

Well, that's not exactly how it works...
- Pecafan Fan

right. i'm not saying Kessel would win the Conn Smythe in Chicago. but Kane wouldn't be winning it in Toronto.

ok, here's the issue;

you think Kessel at 8 is a steal, which implies you think his value is higher, lets say around 9M.

But at the same time, you think Toews, who brings similar offense(though admittedly a bit less), but far more in the way of defense and leadership is ridiculous at 10.5.

saying 10.5 is ridiculous implies you think he's worth less than that. Is overpaying a guy 1.5(just for argument's sake) ridiculous? I don't think so. 1.5 gets you a steal in Santorelli, and it's about average for a good veteran 4th liner. Saying 10.5 is a ridiculous, selfish contract implies you think he's worth less than 9.

Now, just about anybody would take Toews over Kessel... he just brings so much more to the game. But you're implying that Kessel>=Toews.

Maybe you don't mean to say that. But that's the implication.
- Feeling Glucky?

I admire you patience and dedication.

And yeah, that's pretty much what I think as well.

comparing Kessel to Toews is quite silly. Toews is hands down a better nad more valuable player. Kessel and Kane are far closer.
- DoubleDown

You could make the argument that 10.5 is a bit high for Kane. I can see that one... but the guys have chemistry, and at the end of the day, you pay your stars if you want to win.

5 players make more than Toews will next season.

Are there 5 players you would rather have over Toews
- Badge

Nope.

5 players make more than Toews will next season.

Are there 5 players you would rather have over Toews
- Badge

No. I'm a huge Toews fan and would pay him the same amount to retain if I had to.

As an owner, would you not try to talk him into the first category just a little bit though?

right. i'm not saying Kessel would win the Conn Smythe in Chicago. but Kane wouldn't be winning it in Toronto.
- DoubleDown

But a Conn Smythe and 2 Cups gave Kane the resume to get that big, fat, fuking contract he just signed.

won a Conn Smythe on his ELC.

Kane and Toews are THE REASON Chicago is a profitable franchise again. God Damned right he earned it.
- Badge

Didn't he also win an Olympic gold and MVP too?

right. i'm not saying Kessel would win the Conn Smythe in Chicago. but Kane wouldn't be winning it in Toronto.
- DoubleDown

hell no.

And Kessel would have Kanes rings... and contract probably.

Didn't he also win an Olympic gold and MVP too?
- Aaron_85

who can keep track really

Nope.
- Woderwick

Depends on team need. If I have Crosby and Malkin on my team, then I can name 5 defensemen I would rather have for sure

If I'm stacked on D like St. Louis, then I can't think of 5 forwards I'd rather have.


If we are talking the Leafs then, despite D being a huge priority still, having a #1 C is much more important to this club, and I can't name any player I'd rather have than Toews

No. I'm a huge Toews fan and would pay him the same amount to retain if I had to.

As an owner, would you not try to talk him into the first category just a little bit though?
- Aaron_85

My point is they did. Weber will make $14M next season. Parise $11M.
Id rather one Toews than 2 Parises anyday, money not being a factor

I admire you patience and dedication.

And yeah, that's pretty much what I think as well.
- Pecafan Fan

I read your post slower than my mind was working. It went:
I admire your patience and dedication and yeah...that's pretty much it.

I read your post slower than my mind was working. It went:
I admire your patience and dedication and yeah...that's pretty much it.
- Woderwick

Depends on team need. If I have Crosby and Malkin on my team, then I can name 5 defensemen I would rather have for sure

If I'm stacked on D like St. Louis, then I can't think of 5 forwards I'd rather have.


If we are talking the Leafs then, despite D being a huge priority still, having a #1 C is much more important to this club, and I can't name any player I'd rather have than Toews
- TheThrill

Well pretend you have no one and you have to make your first 5 picks...where does Toews come in?

I think that's where he's coming from.