What's the Hossa Cap recapture going to cost the Hawks when he retires?


That would worry me as a Hawks fan. I'm surprised there was no talk of using an Amnesty on him. He's still a hell of a two way player, but how many years will he be? 2-3? Maybe.
- LeaderofthePAEK

Run it at capgeek.com. Varies with year he retires. Really though, I put this at problem #11 on my top-10 list.

I am beginning to believe it is very difficult, if not impossible, to ice a cup winning team with two large (league high at the time of signing - essentially) contract forwards on your team.

That second 9-10M guy takes 1 or two additional quality players off your roster.
- icedog97

How did you figure that out?

By hockeysfuture? I used to write (covered the Hawks, Blues, Tampa, Preds and Canucks) for them, and I think they have the Hawks' overrated.
- John Jaeckel

Yes, only other site, that I saw, that ranked prospects was bleacher report (hawks were 9th) but I don't trust them as much (considering they do all sports).

Dave Bolland disagrees with the bolded
- eburgio[/quot

Grading Tallon as a GM:
Enter a minus one (-1) for signing Bolland for ludicrous money.

I think those of you who believe there enough prospects to replace Oduya, leddy, sharp, Kruger and Shaw are being (no offense) ignorant of history. Just looking at the hawks 9not to mention 29 other teams) the road is literally littered with the names of “top prospects” who didn’t make it.

Just taking the Hawks: Steve McCarthy, Adam Munro, Kyle Beach, Igor Makarov, Mikhail Yakubov, Jack Skille, Pavel Vorobiev, Jimmy Waite(!), Eric LeCompte, Geoff Peters, Matt Keith, Remy Royer, JY Leroux, Adam Berti, Mike Blunden, Shawn Lalonde, Akim Aliu, Billy Sweatt, Dan Delisle, Ludvig Rensfledt.

ALL hyped every bit as much as the current group of prospects. All big, fat flops.

Point is, the road to the NHL is tough and 3 out of every 4 guys drafted never make it at all, let alone become meaningful players.

I love Philip Danault, but does he become a nother Marcus Kruger . . . in 1-2 years? Probably not.

Will McNeill be another Shaw? Mmmm maybe, maybe not.

Who in the current pipeline replaces Leddy or Oduya? You better start lighting candles for Clendeining but all indications are he could be closer to Nathan Dempsey than he ever will be to Leddy or Oduya. Dahlbeck is a nice prospect, could be a 4-5 guy. Divided opinions on Johns.

You are just assuming too high a percentage of these guys are going to succeed and be good players. It almost NEVER works out that way.
- John Jaeckel

Not exactly what I said, more along the lines of you have to have younger guys contribute to win a cup.

Not trying to get into an argument, because trust me, I do know that you know much more about these guys than I do, but you don't think that two or three, could contribute? You weren't really convinced Saad could contribute this early yet either if I remember correctly.

10.8 each would actually be a bargain. from the rumored 12 each that saves you 2.4 mil... the cost of a decent 3rd liner in the coming years... not bad.
- ChrisMS

Go do the arithmetic and then come back to us.

I think those of you who believe there enough prospects to replace Oduya, leddy, sharp, Kruger and Shaw are being (no offense) ignorant of history. Just looking at the hawks 9not to mention 29 other teams) the road is literally littered with the names of “top prospects” who didn’t make it.

Just taking the Hawks: Steve McCarthy, Adam Munro, Kyle Beach, Igor Makarov, Mikhail Yakubov, Jack Skille, Pavel Vorobiev, Jimmy Waite(!), Eric LeCompte, Geoff Peters, Matt Keith, Remy Royer, JY Leroux, Adam Berti, Mike Blunden, Shawn Lalonde, Akim Aliu, Billy Sweatt, Dan Delisle, Ludvig Rensfledt.

ALL hyped every bit as much as the current group of prospects. All big, fat flops.

Point is, the road to the NHL is tough and 3 out of every 4 guys drafted never make it at all, let alone become meaningful players.

I love Philip Danault, but does he become a nother Marcus Kruger . . . in 1-2 years? Probably not.

Will McNeill be another Shaw? Mmmm maybe, maybe not.

Who in the current pipeline replaces Leddy or Oduya? You better start lighting candles for Clendeining but all indications are he could be closer to Nathan Dempsey than he ever will be to Leddy or Oduya. Dahlbeck is a nice prospect, could be a 4-5 guy. Divided opinions on Johns.

You are just assuming too high a percentage of these guys are going to succeed and be good players. It almost NEVER works out that way.
- John Jaeckel

To be fair how many of those guys were drafted under the current system? How many of the current depth guys are bowman picks? These guys aren't top guys being billed as stars they are being labeled as NHL capable at the minimum (except TT) and thats really all the hawks need. Its true replacing shaw and kruger will be hard because they are worth absolute gold. Normally you get one guy like that in a bottom 6 not 3-4. Having those guys allows the hawks to crush it on their way to the cup. But replacing them with merely competent bottom 6ers doesn't eliminate the hawks from contention. It simply makes them a closer to your average cup contender. And in today's NHL thats what you have to do. Look at the blues. everyone always pegs them for a cup. They have good top talent and good depth. But they always get beat out by the hawks and kings because these two have miraculously better top talent (seriously these teams are stacked top 6) and better depth at a cheap price. Of course we want the hawks to be stacked bottom to top but thats just not realistic long term. If every one of the hawks prospects developed into a 3/4th liner the hawks would still be very realistic contenders. It just wouldn't be quite so easy as we are used to.

Go do the arithmetic and then come back to us.
- blackhawk24

think he means 1.2 each totally 2.4.

NEWS FLASH! ----Sort of---


ESPN Chicago ‏@ESPNChiHawks 3m

Hayes won't attend Hawks prospect camp http://es.pn/1oheHHT

And Kane and Toews wouldn't????

The number being reported is too high but still a discount.

Come back and GLOAT if Williams and Kopitar sign at numbers below the obvious market.
- tredbrta

I'm not gonna come back and do anything when they sign but I do think when kopitars contract is up it'll be around 9 a year maybe less. That's just how Lombardi rolls with his players.

The comment was regarding which players on the kings have a discount.

Of course Kane and Toews would be higher on the open market so I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

>First Rule of Cap Management: Biggest Contracts Go to the Best Players
>Second Rule: Best Players Need to Play Like Best Players
>So far, Hawks have done pretty well overall on Rules 1 & 2
>There is a new GM skill needed with the new CBA -- finding bargains who "outplay" their contracts: overpaid stars on the cheap (Richards?), a player who sticks and surprises -- Shaw, or a player caught in the new "big middle" -- deserves more $ but can't find them (Mason Raymond this year)
>Think any bottom six forward or 3rd pairing Dman can be replaced if the FO hits on its bargains
>I'm willing to wait until the roster is actually set and then we can see if another 2010 "go for it and then purge" is upon us

Wow, there's SO much that can happen in 3 years. Another bad concussion for Toews. Off-ice trouble for another superstar (just saying, it is rumored to happen now and then). Hossa is 38. And no, they have no one who replaces him.

The Hawks window is open now. it's about to get narrower though. 3-5 years out it is unlikely this will be as good a team, unless they REALLY hit on some draft picks and/or fleece someone in a trade or two.
- John Jaeckel

Anyone who is doing the re-capture calculator, thinking LTIR or crap like that should focus any positive energy they have remaining on HOSS still being a SOLID player for another 5 seasons. I personally hope he'll be as in good a shape Selanne was through age 38. Fingers crossed.

NEWS FLASH! ----Sort of---


ESPN Chicago ‏@ESPNChiHawks 3m

Hayes won't attend Hawks prospect camp http://es.pn/1oheHHT
- Beaver-Warrior

Saw that...hope they keep him away from stairwells in Calgary, Boston, Edmonton, St.Louis or whatever freakin team he decides to play for....btw.....hope him and his frankenstein skating brother crap down their pants, and watch the Hawks win another Cup...actually Jimmy didn't do anything wrong

I realize I'll get slapped around for this but......

I feel great about Bergy's contract. $6.5 for eight starting this season.

I hope Krejic dosent get stupid and ask for $10.
- JIwasinskiJr

That was an incredible contract. THAT was a home town discount. Bergeron should fire his agent.

Not exactly what I said, more along the lines of you have to have younger guys contribute to win a cup.

Not trying to get into an argument, because trust me, I do know that you know much more about these guys than I do, but you don't think that two or three, could contribute? You weren't really convinced Saad could contribute this early yet either if I remember correctly.
- vabeachbear

You do, and you have a fair point, but he struggled at first, big time.

Really, in my opinion, 13-14 was the season where he really came into his own as a legitimate, consistent NHL player. Had great players around him the whole way, too.

Not exactly what I said, more along the lines of you have to have younger guys contribute to win a cup.

Not trying to get into an argument, because trust me, I do know that you know much more about these guys than I do, but you don't think that two or three, could contribute? You weren't really convinced Saad could contribute this early yet either if I remember correctly.
- vabeachbear

Don't see top line or top pair dmen among the prospects. Talent, yes. Better than some guys they could replace? Not a big difference either way, unless you are talking about Seabrook. No one would replace what he can be for a team. Of course there are other prospects to watch and perhaps one of them may be a solid top four. But really I would just like to see a roster player - let me use Shaw as an example, or even Kruger - dangled as trade bait along with our first 2015 for a top ten or top six first round 2015. The player drafted you hope would become a core piece in due time.

That's a 2015-16 lineup. The majority, if not all of the prospects will have played at least a partial year. Nordstrom and Morin would be going into their 2nd/3rd full years. Smith his 4th. Maybe the only true rookies at forward would be whoever of McNeill/Hartman gets the 4th line slot. On D, at least one of Rundblad, Dahlbeck, and Johns is likely to have been a regular NHL defenseman in 2014-15. Again, maybe one true rookie on the backend in that scenario. Granted, I'd prefer having a Brookbank-type on the 3rd pair if they fit under the cap.

Also, it isn't as big of a deal to have a few rookies on the team when your entire core (even Saad by that point) have reached veteran status. I can deal with 3/4 rookies on the roster, especially given that only two of them will be in the lineup on any given night.
- BreakoutHockey

Oh. Gotcha.

I think there's a huge difference between taking a step backwards for a year or maybe 2, and never being able to win again. I see a lot of worried fans who are acting like next season is the last season we'll EVER get a chance to see the Hawks compete deep in the playoffs with Kane and Toews.

What happened after 2010? Well, we got (frank)ed by the cap, and then slowly rebuilt a contender again. Why cant that happen again? Same core pieces to build around(only probly minus Sharp and hopefully +Saad). Same coach. Same GM. Another deep group of hopeful prospects to fill in depth roles...

Will we win the Cup in 2015-16? Probly not. But to act like "oh no, one more year and then its over for good" is really idiotic IMO.
- SimpleJack

You like to live on the edge, eh? 2010 was not just being phucked by the cap, it was the QO's, signing 2/19/88 to new deals and the $4.1M carryover bonus. A good FO will not overtly plan this and hope to catch lightning in a bottle every 3 seasons.

Remember how everyone talks about being "one bounce away from the cup" this past season? Well, the 'Hawks were one bounce away from getting knocked off in the 2nd round, at home, in game 7 against Detroit the season before last. Forget for a moment being 'screwed' by Walkom on the Hammer goal at 18:17 of the 3rd. That game went to OT. One bounce. How'd that look now if the 'Hawks watched the B's win 2 cups in 3 a year ago June or the Kings back-to-back?

>First Rule of Cap Management: Biggest Contracts Go to the Best Players
>Second Rule: Best Players Need to Play Like Best Players
>So far, Hawks have done pretty well overall on Rules 1 & 2
>There is a new GM skill needed with the new CBA -- finding bargains who "outplay" their contracts: overpaid stars on the cheap (Richards?), a player who sticks and surprises -- Shaw, or a player caught in the new "big middle" -- deserves more $ but can't find them (Mason Raymond this year)
>Think any bottom six forward or 3rd pairing Dman can be replaced if the FO hits on its bargains
>I'm willing to wait until the roster is actually set and then we can see if another 2010 "go for it and then purge" is upon us
- SnapitUpstairs

All good points, but to my point, now is when we see how good this FO is.

The argument that Stan Bowman deserves more than very marginal credit prior to 2009 is really not even worth responding to. He inherited a boatload of talent in 2009. Has had a lot of short putts since then. Anyone doubting that needs an NHL history lesson.

Now, we start to see how good this FO is at maintaining excellence as Detroit did for so many years. You hit on Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg in rounds 5-7, Franzen in the 3rd I believe, and you really can do it. But those are HUGE hits and the Wings had the luxury of time to develop those guys. The Hawks won't.

NEWS FLASH! ----Sort of---


ESPN Chicago ‏@ESPNChiHawks 3m

Hayes won't attend Hawks prospect camp http://es.pn/1oheHHT
- Beaver-Warrior

Maybe we can trade his rights for a 2c.

You do, and you have a fair point, but he struggled at first, big time.

Really, in my opinion, 13-14 was the season where he really came into his own as a legitimate, consistent NHL player. Had great players around him the whole way, too.
- John Jaeckel

Can't argue any of that, and hopefully he'll have Kane on the other wing for a lot of years going forward, and who knows, maybe eventually a 2C.

I will say though, if none of these guys can fill in and take those spots of guys who have to move on because of cap, then this is really where Stan and his scouting department has failed.

All of this strong organization, Detroit kind of organization, stuff goes down the tubes if young guys can't step up. The idea that they stay down in the minors longer than they need to so they come in and play when they are more than ready.

Although, not sure its working in Detroit that well right now.

Saw that...hope they keep him away from stairwells in Calgary, Boston, Edmonton, St.Louis or whatever freakin team he decides to play for....btw.....hope him and his frankenstein skating brother crap down their pants, and watch the Hawks win another Cup...actually Jimmy didn't do anything wrong
- captainserious

Flames is my guess to where he ends up.

Saw that...hope they keep him away from stairwells in Calgary, Boston, Edmonton, St.Louis or whatever freakin team he decides to play for....btw.....hope him and his frankenstein skating brother crap down their pants, and watch the Hawks win another Cup...actually Jimmy didn't do anything wrong
- captainserious

Lol, send him to Edmonton ! We can watch him.

Doesn't hurt, but do the math.

The higher the portion of your cap you commit to existing assets (who will probably not get better), then the less you have to commit to the rest of your roster or any real improvement. Unless you hit on a lot of draft picks who can meaningfully contribute under ELC's.
- John Jaeckel

Oh Ok for sure.

All good points, but to my point, now is when we see how good this FO is.

The argument that Stan Bowman deserves more than very marginal credit prior to 2009 is really not even worth responding to. He inherited a boatload of talent in 2009. Has had a lot of short putts since then. Anyone doubting that needs an NHL history lesson.

Now, we start to see how good this FO is at maintaining excellence as Detroit did for so many years. You hit on Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg in rounds 5-7, Franzen in the 3rd I believe, and you really can do it. But those are HUGE hits and the Wings had the luxury of time to develop those guys. The Hawks won't.
- John Jaeckel

Hi JJ...hope you are doing good...I just can't agree with everything you said...and here is why...

Whenever someone goes to bash Tallon, or say: He didn't draft Buff,Smith drafted Keith...yadda yadda yadda...then someone always says: Well Tallon was a scout...or assistant GM or director of hockey operations bla bla bla

So....even though Stan inherited a good team, he was also there, I believe from 2001 working with the Blackhawks....so you can say he had his hand possibly in some earlier moves along with Tallon....

Also your line about his short putts since....Shaw wasn't a short putt....neither was Saad who everyone was avoiding because of certain ''issues''(not going to get into that whether they were true or not)....Also, Oduya wasn't really considered a shut down d-man with Jersey or the Jets...

I just think he deserves more credit than given...like when the Hawks go on a streak and win 8 in a row or lose 4 in a row...you are never as good or bad as you are when you are on a roll whether it be a good one or bad one...People either think Stan is the biggest genius in the NHL or they bash him(not saying you were bashing him)