Lol...I just saw him do the buy/sell bit on CSN.....I kept thinking the same thing.....I can't read him anymore because he always waaaaay off base, I can't listen to him on the radio because he's unlistenable, and now I can't watch him because he has jay cutler face.....
- UnnamedSource

theyve been showing a commercial on CSN this morning..I guess the Kaplan and Haugh radio show on 87.7FM is going to be simulcast on CSN starting July 21st..

Miller's career numbers don't mean squat. How's he been lately? When it counts?

Schneider hasn't accomplished a thing in his career to this point, although he's young and has plenty of talent.

The main point is that Crawford's contract is right where it should be in the market. We can quibble which of these three goalies is slightly better than the rest, but at worst you can throw a hat over all of them. Once Schneider signs they'll all have the same cap hit. Suggests that the market for guys like them (even if they are similar goalies) is $6M.
- mohel

Crawford has somewhat worse numbers with much better teams. And he plays behind arguably the best defense in the league with a 2-time Norris winner. The truth is, Crawford has had stretches where he's played like an elite goalie, and stretches where he's been average at best. And a couple of stretches where he's been dreadful: 2012 playoffs and parts of 2013 regular season.

I personally don't care what other teams pay their goalies. I think it's a valid question whether he will be overpaid at $6 million a year. He looked like he deserved it during the 2014 playoffs. He needs to be consistent. And being able to steal a few more games now and then wouldn't hurt. And for my money, there are other goalies in the league who i think I'd rather have who make less money.

Crawford has somewhat worse numbers with much better teams. And he plays behind arguably the best defense in the league with a 2-time Norris winner. The truth is, Crawford has had stretches where he's played like an elite goalie, and stretches where he's been average at best. And a couple of stretches where he's been dreadful: 2012 playoffs and parts of 2013 regular season.

I personally don't care what other teams pay their goalies. I think it's a valid question whether he will be overpaid at $6 million a year. He looked like he deserved it during ghte 2014 playoffs. He needs tone consistent. And being able to steal a few more games now and then wouldn't hurt. And for my money, there are other goalies in the league who i think I'd rather have who make less money.
- John Jaeckel

I think there's always plenty of room for debate in the goalie area. The debate was whether he's overpaid in the market (along with whether they could have signed him for less). You can't make a valid comparison unless you look at what other teams pay similar goalies, imo. If another team will pay Miller $6M after he played worse that Crawford (on a team that is also pretty damn good), it is hard to say that Crow wouldn't get that.

Many of the other goalies we'd rather have that make less signed deals awhile ago and will also get plenty in their next deal. Quick is the main exception - his and Hammer's deals are similarly crazy low.

career

Miller .915/2.26
Schneider .925/2.12
Crawford .914/2.36

And Crawford's GAA is helped by having played with better teams. So, umm, no.
- John Jaeckel

Sigh ... here we go again. How about the last three years' stats? Why is Miller better NOW because of what he did ten years ago? Crawford is better. And the better team stuff? He's been barraged. Or, would you say that Quick is not elite because he played behind the league's No. 1 defense?

Crawford played Conn Smythe hockey in the 2013 playoffs and single handedly advanced the Hawks through the first two series in 2014. Enough already.

Funniest part is that if discussing Bickell, .3 ppg is ok because of his playoff stats, yet CC's PO performance doesn't count.

What has his size gotten us? You don't think you could replace those three with better substitutes with the same $12m
- fvineze

Bickell and Crow? No. You'd have to go outside the organization and possibly pay more. You apparently think it's easy so name their replacements at the same or < $$$.

Bickell and Crow? No. You'd have to go outside the organization and possibly pay more. You apparently think it's easy so name their replacements at the same or < $$$.
- HawkintheD

I actually agree with him on Bickell.

But seriously, our division has improved greatly and we only came in 3rd last season. Seeding is important. What if we wind up getting into the playoffs by wild card and have to claw our way up? WTF does Bickell do to help us gain some home ice in the playoffs? IMO, there's no room on a contending professional sports team for a guy who decides he's not going to exert himself for an entire season, "but hey, if we make the playoffs with no help from me, I'm your guy!"

Sigh ... here we go again. How about the last three years' stats? Why is Miller better NOW because of what he did ten years ago? Crawford is better. And the better team stuff? He's been barraged. Or, would you say that Quick is not elite because he played behind the league's No. 1 defense?

Crawford played Conn Smythe hockey in the 2013 playoffs and single handedly advanced the Hawks through the first two series in 2014. Enough already.

Funniest part is that if discussing Bickell, .3 ppg is ok because of his playoff stats, yet CC's PO performance doesn't count.
- Q...argh

I thought the knock on him was always more about him not being able to steal a game here or there, that he'd never really done that much if at all in his career.

There were two clear cut wins all on Crow in the first two series in these recent playoffs; and you could argue at least two more goalie wins (one in each) where it looked like Crow was the only Blackhawk on the ice in the second period.

I actually agree with him on Bickell.

But seriously, our division has improved greatly and we only came in 3rd last season. Seeding is important. What if we wind up getting into the playoffs by wild card and have to claw our way up? WTF does Bickell do to help us gain some home ice in the playoffs? IMO, there's no room on a contending professional sports team for a guy who decides he's not going to exert himself for an entire season, "but hey, if we make the playoffs with no help from me, I'm your guy!"
- Q...argh

I know what he's said and understand why your using that to roast him a bit. I think the guy was not healthy last season and played with leg braces for much of it.

I know he's played enough hockey to make a judgement either way; but, I think with him having time to heal and a full offseason to recoup you see a different guy in the regular season this year.

Either way hopefully McNeil takes another step this year and then the Hawks potentially have a replacement. I'm hoping Bickell does well and it gives them an opportunity to add another guy with size in McNeil and not subtract 29.

Btw - that's a dangerous place to be when you start agreeing with CC's #1 fan.

I thought the knock on him was always more about him not being able to steal a game here or there, that he'd never really done that much if at all in his career.

There were two clear cut wins all on Crow in the first two series in these recent playoffs; and you could argue at least two more goalie wins (one in each) where it looked like Crow was the only Blackhawk on the ice in the second period.
- HawkintheD

Every time the poor jerk comes within 5 or 10 minutes of a shutout, either the other team gets a completely fluke late goal, or Leddy or another schmutz gets owned on a stupid play, or we get an own goal, like Seabs did to the poor jerk TWICE last season. Luck does play a part in hockey, and poor Crow doesn't seem to have much of it.

But, he does a lot to make his own luck, and with the low number of goals he allows most games, it ain't his fault if the other 18 guys on the ice aren't doing their jobs and scoring a few goals. Not many goalies consistently give up 2 or fewer more than Crawford.

Sigh ... here we go again. How about the last three years' stats? Why is Miller better NOW because of what he did ten years ago? Crawford is better. And the better team stuff? He's been barraged. Or, would you say that Quick is not elite because he played behind the league's No. 1 defense?

Crawford played Conn Smythe hockey in the 2013 playoffs and single handedly advanced the Hawks through the first two series in 2014. Enough already.

Funniest part is that if discussing Bickell, .3 ppg is ok because of his playoff stats, yet CC's PO performance doesn't count.
- Q...argh

Go back and read my last post. Of course, his playoff numbers "count." Good and bad. You give him the Smythe for 2013. Well, others don't. In fact, i would have absolutely given it to Bickell, but that's a digression.

He was Smythe good in 2014, I'll grant you that. team didn't get there, which was too bad.

Did he deserve the Smythe in 2012. Umm, no. He sucked. Flat sucked. Sucked like Cristobal Huet off his anti-depresssants sucked. Got completely outplayed by Mike Smith.

Outside Chicago, few people hold him in the high regard you guys do. Do you know that? He's somewhat inconsistent. Good starter for a lot of teams. But benefits greatly from playing 2/3 of every game behind Marian Hossa, Jonethan Toews, Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, marcus Kruger and Niklas Hjalmarsson.

You are WAY off-base when you say he's been "barraged." Even if the shot totals were high relative to other teams, which I don't believe they are, the shot quality is low. Sorry, that is just out of perspective with how the Hawks' defense, team and blue line, stacks up with other teams around the league.

"Here we go again?" Why is it I can offer an even-handed (positive and negative) evaluation of this guy (or a lot of Hawk players and executives) and you guys can only accept that which is completely positive? I mean really?



And don't come back with I'm so "negative." No, there are may posters on this board who will not tolerate the slightest criticism of Stan Bowman or Corey Crawford—NONE—even that mixed with praise for their legitimate accomplishments. Oh, and add to that the Great Teuvo Teravainen, who most of these guys have seen play in junior tournaments what, twice? Talk about Thought Police. So who's being unreasonable?

Try to be fair an fair-minded please. We'll have more edifying discussions all the way around.

I know what he's said and understand why your using that to roast him a bit. I think the guy was not healthy last season and played with leg braces for much of it.

I know he's played enough hockey to make a judgement either way; but, I think with him having time to heal and a full offseason to recoup you see a different guy in the regular season this year.

Either way hopefully McNeil takes another step this year and then the Hawks potentially have a replacement. I'm hoping Bickell does well and it gives them an opportunity to add another guy with size in McNeil and not subtract 29.

Btw - that's a dangerous place to be when you start agreeing with CC's #1 fan.
- HawkintheD

Too true on that last part.

I hope Bickell does well, too, and I understand your argument on him. Just one of those points we'll never agree on.

Go back and read my last post. Of course, his playoff numbers "count." Good and bad. You give him the Smythe for 2013. Well, others don't. In fact, i would have absolutely given it to Bickell, but that's a digression.

He was Smythe good in 2014, I'll grant you that. team didn't get there, which was too bad.

Did he deserve the Smythe in 2012. Umm, no. He sucked. Flat sucked. Sucked like Cristobal Huet off his anti-depresssants sucked. Got completely outplayed by Mike Smith.

Outside Chicago, few people hold him in the high regard you guys do. Do you know that? He's somewhat inconsistent. Good starter for a lot of teams. But benefits greatly from playing 2/3 of every game behind Marian Hossa, Jonethan Toews, Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, marcus Kruger and Niklas Hjalmarsson.

You are WAY off-base when you say he's been "barraged." Even if the shot totals were high relative to other teams, which I don't believe they are, the shot quality is low. Sorry, that is just out of perspective with how the Hawks' defense, team and blue line, stacks up with other teams around the league.

"Here we go again?" Why is it I can offer an even-handed (positive and negative) evaluation of this guy (or a lot of Hawk players and executives) and you guys can only accept that which is completely positive? I mean really?


- John Jaeckel

Who only offers completely positive? I'm the first one to say when he's pee'd his pants, and yes, he's done it. But, the guy has improved greatly since the 2012 playoffs. He's not the same goalie he was then. WTF bash a guy for 3 seasons past when they went out in the 1st round because the entire team sucked ass? Why is it only CC who is the recipient of this constant, near obsessive bashing? WTF did Sharp do last playoffs? Where's the Sharp bashing?

Who only offers completely positive? I'm the first one to say when he's pee'd his pants, and yes, he's done it. But, the guy has improved greatly since the 2012 playoffs. He's not the same goalie he was then. WTF bash a guy for 3 seasons past when they went out in the 1st round because the entire team sucked ass? Why is only CC who is the recipient of this consistent, near obsessive bashing? WTF did Sharp do last playoffs? Where's the Sharp bashing?
- Q...argh

No. HE sucked in the 2012 playoffs. Did some other guys? Yes. But He sucked on his own just fine.

Has he improved? Yes. But he goes in fits and starts, doesn't he? I think I was pretty much putting Sharp's face on a milk carton during the playoffs as I recall, btw.

My point: "here we go again" was unnecessary

Go back and read my last post. Of course, his playoff numbers "count." Good and bad. You give him the Smythe for 2013. Well, others don't. In fact, i would have absolutely given it to Bickell, but that's a digression.

He was Smythe good in 2014, I'll grant you that. team didn't get there, which was too bad.

Did he deserve the Smythe in 2012. Umm, no. He sucked. Flat sucked. Sucked like Cristobal Huet off his anti-depresssants sucked. Got completely outplayed by Mike Smith.

Outside Chicago, few people hold him in the high regard you guys do. Do you know that? He's somewhat inconsistent. Good starter for a lot of teams. But benefits greatly from playing 2/3 of every game behind Marian Hossa, Jonethan Toews, Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, marcus Kruger and Niklas Hjalmarsson.

You are WAY off-base when you say he's been "barraged." Even if the shot totals were high relative to other teams, which I don't believe they are, the shot quality is low. Sorry, that is just out of perspective with how the Hawks' defense, team and blue line, stacks up with other teams around the league.

"Here we go again?" Why is it I can offer an even-handed (positive and negative) evaluation of this guy (or a lot of Hawk players and executives) and you guys can only accept that which is completely positive? I mean really?



And don't come back with I'm so "negative." No, there are may posters on this board who will not tolerate the slightest criticism of Stan Bowman or Corey Crawford—NONE—even that mixed with praise for their legitimate accomplishments. Oh, and add to that the Great Teuvo Teravainen, who most of these guys have seen play in junior tournaments what, twice? Talk about Thought Police. So who's being unreasonable?

Try to be fair an fair-minded please. We'll have more edifying discussions all the way around.
- John Jaeckel

Crawford sucked in OT in the phoenix series. Those were very weak. But I agree with eddie O in that in regulation it was pretty even between crawford and smith. Our offense lost the phoenix series. I don't think Smith was really tested that much outside of game 6. And I do think Crawford faces a lot of high-quality shots in general. Shot totals are deceiving. He sees a lot of tips and point blank shots. I see a lot of chinese fire drill in our own zone. Guess we will have to agree to disagree

No. HE sucked in the 2012 playoffs. Did some other guys? Yes. But He sucked on his own just fine.

Has he improved? Yes. But he goes in fits and starts, doesn't he? I think I was pretty much putting Sharp's face on a milk carton during the playoffs as I recall, btw.

My point: "here we go again" was unnecessary
- John Jaeckel

Yes, Crow will go a dozen games giving 2 or fewer, then give up 3 or 4 for 2 or 3. But, I have a hard time thinking of a goalie who doesn't. Luongo can be God for 10 games, then give up 7. Rask is about the only goalie who meets that standard ... I'd say he has maybe a third the stinkers CC has. Still, he's the best goaltender in the world. I'd take Crawford over or with anyone outside of Rask, Quick (who has his share of stinkers, btw) or the ever-overrated King Henryk, who's never won a damned thing.

Sorry if the "here we go again" sounded snarky; I didn't mean it to be. I just meant we were back to the Crow is Osgoode discussion that cycles around.

Crawford sucked in OT in the phoenix series. Those were very weak. But I agree with eddie O in that in regulation it was pretty even between crawford and smith. Our offense lost the phoenix series. I don't think Smith was really tested that much outside of game 6. And I do think Crawford faces a lot of high-quality shots in general. Shot totals are deceiving. He sees a lot of tips and point blank shots. I see a lot of chinese fire drill in our own zone. Guess we will have to agree to disagree
- tomcat24

That is a very good point. The Hawks are terrible at clearing out the slot. I've never seen a goalie take as many deflections as Crawford does. In fact, I'd love to see the stats on it, because it seems like at least half the goals he lets in are on deflections.

That is a very good point. The Hawks are terrible at clearing out the slot. I've never seen a goalie take as many deflections as Crawford does. In fact, I'd love to see the stats on it, because it seems like at least half the goals he lets in are on deflections.
- Q...argh

Yeah I bet the stats would be high. Hawks have a very mobile D. They are great at standing up at the blueline to stop the team from entering, especially keith. He reads plays like no other. Or they are quick to get to a dump-in and pass up quickly. If the other team gets to the puck 1st look out

Crawford has somewhat worse numbers with much better teams. And he plays behind arguably the best defense in the league with a 2-time Norris winner. The truth is, Crawford has had stretches where he's played like an elite goalie, and stretches where he's been average at best. And a couple of stretches where he's been dreadful: 2012 playoffs and parts of 2013 regular season.

I personally don't care what other teams pay their goalies. I think it's a valid question whether he will be overpaid at $6 million a year. He looked like he deserved it during the 2014 playoffs. He needs to be consistent. And being able to steal a few more games now and then wouldn't hurt. And for my money, there are other goalies in the league who i think I'd rather have who make less money.
- John Jaeckel

Im just intrigued to hear who your guys at a lower cost would be? Not attacking your opinion, just want to get your take

career

Miller .915/2.26
Schneider .925/2.12
Crawford .914/2.36

And Crawford's GAA is helped by having played with better teams. So, umm, no.
- John Jaeckel

What about right now?

Crawford - today- better than Miller?
Crawford - today - better than Schneider?

Certainly not any worse than those two.

What about right now?

Crawford - today- better than Miller?
Crawford - today - better than Schneider?

Certainly not any worse than those two.
- StLBravesFan

I would think that first round series against the Blues would show anyone with one good eye all you need to know about Ryan Miller at this stage of his career.

Im just intrigued to hear who your guys at a lower cost would be? Not attacking your opinion, just want to get your take
- FourFeathers773

Right off the bat, JJ will say Craig Anderson. Loves him some Craig Anderson.

Jokes aside, there are very few goalies that are paid significantly less that have better numbers than Crawford. Ben Bishop does, but this is really his first year he's proven anything. Varlamov is making 5.9. Quick is making 5.8. Tuukka Rask is making 7.0. Mike Smith is making 5.7. Howard 5.5. Bobrovsky 5.6.

You might be able to get someone cheaper, but it will be marginally cheaper. After the ones mentioned, you get into the Halak and Fluery territory...4.25 - 5.0M. I would stay far away from Fluery at any cost.

Right off the bat, JJ will say Craig Anderson. Loves him some Craig Anderson.

Jokes aside, there are very few goalies that are paid significantly less that have better numbers than Crawford. Ben Bishop does, but this is really his first year he's proven anything. Varlamov is making 5.9. Quick is making 5.8. Tuukka Rask is making 7.0. Mike Smith is making 5.7. Howard 5.5. Bobrovsky 5.6.

You might be able to get someone cheaper, but it will be marginally cheaper. After the ones mentioned, you get into the Halak and Fluery territory...4.25 - 5.0M. I would stay far away from Fluery at any cost.
- eburgio

Craig Anderson has been as roller coaster as anyone in the league for their career. Sure he gets hot, but he's also had some playoff performances where he was completely roasted as well

Bickell and Crow? No. You'd have to go outside the organization and possibly pay more. You apparently think it's easy so name their replacements at the same or < $$$.
- HawkintheD

20% of our payroll tied up in these three guys, and we couldn't improve on that?

Right off the bat, JJ will say Craig Anderson. Loves him some Craig Anderson.

Jokes aside, there are very few goalies that are paid significantly less that have better numbers than Crawford. Ben Bishop does, but this is really his first year he's proven anything. Varlamov is making 5.9. Quick is making 5.8. Tuukka Rask is making 7.0. Mike Smith is making 5.7. Howard 5.5. Bobrovsky 5.6.

You might be able to get someone cheaper, but it will be marginally cheaper. After the ones mentioned, you get into the Halak and Fluery territory...4.25 - 5.0M. I would stay far away from Fluery at any cost.
- eburgio

I think lundqvist makes 8 starting next year. Wowza

Right off the bat, JJ will say Craig Anderson. Loves him some Craig Anderson.

Jokes aside, there are very few goalies that are paid significantly less that have better numbers than Crawford. Ben Bishop does, but this is really his first year he's proven anything. Varlamov is making 5.9. Quick is making 5.8. Tuukka Rask is making 7.0. Mike Smith is making 5.7. Howard 5.5. Bobrovsky 5.6.

You might be able to get someone cheaper, but it will be marginally cheaper. After the ones mentioned, you get into the Halak and Fluery territory...4.25 - 5.0M. I would stay far away from Fluery at any cost.
- eburgio

Even looking at goalies getting paid lesser than Crow, if they were brought into the Hawks organization, their individual success and merits will rise through the roof and then eventually get paid $6M+.

It's a catch 22.

Unless you cycle through goalies on a 2-3 year basis... eventually going to have to pay someone who is on an elite team (due to stats alone).