You forgot? I remember quite vivdily, it happens to us every game
- peddy-93

On our team. hahaha

Not even prime for 90 percent of d men...
- aminnes

i agree.. but in relation to learning curve, not going to get a whole lot better

You forgot? I remember quite vivdily, it happens to us every game
- peddy-93

Forsberg, Yzerman, Hasek, Id probably have Messier in there, Roy, Mario Lemieux even though he missed a few years later in the 90s, Wayne Gretzky was still okay, Sakic, Neely scored 50 three times in the 90s, Brett Hull scored, 72, 86, 70, 54, and 57 goal seasons in the 90s

86 goals is so sick
- PinkSock

selanne got 76 as a rookie. Completely different game/era

On our team. hahaha
- LeafMan

That's better. But it is good to see Shanahan is changing the direction of this team. Being able to roll 4 lines is what it takes to be a good NHL team now a days.

i agree.. but in relation to learning curve, not going to get a whole lot better
- Dozzer

How do we explain 2 years ago?... If he can play like that I'm down...

selanne got 76 as a rookie. Completely different game/era
- clark_griswold

the 90s is a different era? say it aint so

Forsberg, Yzerman, Hasek, Id probably have Messier in there, Roy, Mario Lemieux even though he missed a few years later in the 90s, Wayne Gretzky was still okay, Sakic, Neely scored 50 three times in the 90s, Brett Hull scored, 72, 86, 70, 54, and 57 goal seasons in the 90s

86 goals is so sick
- PinkSock

Hull was a terrible hockey player.

And Jagr would have to be on the list (I hate Jagr).

Oh to have a 3rd and 4th line to pin down the other team in their own zone, I forgotten what it looks like. lol.
- LeafMan

Sorry what are these 3rd 4th lines you speak of?

You forgot? I remember quite vivdily, it happens to us every game
- peddy-93

My problem is he was brought in for 5.25 to bring grit. And then he was put in a role to bring offense palying with Kadri/Lupul. That went to poops. So then he got demoted to 3rd line for grit. He didn't really bring that either. He falls over his own feet more than having the puck on his stick.

So, what is he?
- peddy-93

He was brought in to bring grit for the 2nd line because it had zero grit. But he was played more as a checker by Carlyle, which he is not. Wasn't given any PP time early either, even though he scored 1/3 if his goals the previous 2 seasons on the PP. (14 of 45G in 128 games).

not going to claim I know what was wrong, but he didn't look like the player I remember on jersey, and he looked lost on the ice a lot, never looked like he knew where he was supposed to be or what his role was, and that seems like comfort level with line mates and system to me.
Hope so anyway

Hull was a terrible hockey player.

And Jagr would have to be on the list (I hate Jagr).
- Atomic Wedgie

Hull was very one dimensional player. He was one of the best pure scorers in NHL history. Pure trigger man.

Hull was a terrible hockey player.

And Jagr would have to be on the list (I hate Jagr).
- Atomic Wedgie

Hull looked terrible i agree, but can't deny his #s. Hence he's a sick player.

Jagr would be 2nd scorer of all time behind 99 if he didn't run off to Europe and miss a few seasons from lockouts. His #s are gross.

Hull was a terrible hockey player.

And Jagr would have to be on the list (I hate Jagr).
- Atomic Wedgie

It's his hair isn't it?

Foppa and LIndros have really comparable regular season stats. Foppa killed it in the playoffs though.

No question for me - E.L. should be an easy selection for the HHOF.

And I'm pretty sure Hull smoked on the ice when he was cherry picking by his bench.

He was brought in to bring grit for the 2nd line because it had zero grit. But he was played more as a checker by Carlyle, which he is not. Wasn't given any PP time early either, even though he scored 1/3 if his goals the previous 2 seasons on the PP. (14 of 45G in 128 games).

not going to claim I know what was wrong, but he did. It look like the player I remember on jersey, and he looked lost on the ice a lot, never looked like he knew where he was supposed to be or what his role was, and that seems like comfort level with line mates and system to me.
Hope so anyway
- Big_Lightnin

Our top 2 lines don't need grit, as long as they produce offense they're good.

I want you to be right and I want to be optimistic about him, but at this point in time I just cant.

Hull was a terrible hockey player.

And Jagr would have to be on the list (I hate Jagr).
- Atomic Wedgie

Pavel Bure was pretty electric.

He was brought in to bring grit for the 2nd line because it had zero grit. But he was played more as a checker by Carlyle, which he is not. Wasn't given any PP time early either, even though he scored 1/3 if his goals the previous 2 seasons on the PP. (14 of 45G in 128 games).

not going to claim I know what was wrong, but he did. It look like the player I remember on jersey, and he looked lost on the ice a lot, never looked like he knew where he was supposed to be or what his role was, and that seems like comfort level with line mates and system to me.
Hope so anyway
- Big_Lightnin

I don't think Kadri and Lupul were easy guys to play with either. Clarkson comes from arguably the most disciplined system in all of hockey and gets plunked onto a line with 2 very skilled but very very undisciplined players. Nobody every knew what to expect when Kadri or Lupul carried the puck into the offensive zone.

Our top 2 lines don't need grit, as long as they produce offense they're good.

I want you to be right and I want to be optimistic about him, but at this point in time I just cant.
- peddy-93

Do something with Reimer and that may include a d man, which is all we need to start, then tweak as we go to get the chemistry right..

How do we explain 2 years ago?... If he can play like that I'm down...
- aminnes

Who we talking MDZ or Franson?

2 years ago Franson was Completely protected ... He and Fraser only ever faced 3/4 lines and played fewest even strength minutes on the team. Often matched with Kadri against other teams 3 rd line . Kadri ate up those guys and Franson racked up points with him and on PP, but you can't pay a guy $4M per who has to be sheltered like that.

Our top 2 lines don't need grit, as long as they produce offense they're good.

I want you to be right and I want to be optimistic about him, but at this point in time I just cant.
- peddy-93

Give him the first 20 games
If he has 8 pts by then consider that he will turn things around

I don't think Kadri and Lupul were easy guys to play with either. Clarkson comes from arguably the most disciplined system in all of hockey and gets plunked onto a line with 2 very skilled but very very undisciplined players. Nobody every knew what to expect when Kadri or Lupul carried the puck into the offensive zone.
- The Law

He was also consistently a step behind them. Both with speed and decision making. He was always out of place because he was behind the play.

Do something with Reimer and that may include a d man, which is all we need to start, then tweak as we go to get the chemistry right..
- bixll

Well if the plan is to trade Reimer, I dont know why the Leafs didn't resign MacIntyre for back up.

I don't think Kadri and Lupul were easy guys to play with either. Clarkson comes from arguably the most disciplined system in all of hockey and gets plunked onto a line with 2 very skilled but very very undisciplined players. Nobody every knew what to expect when Kadri or Lupul carried the puck into the offensive zone.
- The Law

Definitely a factor.

Add the 10 game suspension to start season, and huge expectations from signing a big contract and moving into a new team. Went set up to succeed, and he certainly didn't.

Hoping with the MUCH lower expectations he will have a bit less pressure and just play hockey again.

Give him the first 20 games
If he has 8 pts by then consider that he will turn things around
- MTL1

Fair enough. But we also need to pay attention to Kadri/Lupuls #'s with him as well.

Well if the plan is to trade Reimer, I dont know why the Leafs didn't resign MacIntyre for back up.
- peddy-93

I think he signed somewhere else..