Maybe I'm missing something here, but what's the point in dumping Franson to make way for De Zotto?
- Atomic Wedgie

New shiny toy.

Franson is the new whipping boy... He has his issues but he's young and will be cheaper than other options and will bag PP points. Just needs the right homer - Fraser and him even did okay... With the additions they made it might be wise not to givew up on him yet...
- aminnes

Franson's issues are his skating and decision making. I'm afraid it may be too late for him to improve in those key skills.

Guy Carbonneau And Scott Stevens
- BoTtLePoLiCe

looking more and more like Gord Dineen and Derek King

Franson is the new whipping boy... He has his issues but he's young and will be cheaper than other options and will bag PP points. Just needs the right homer - Fraser and him even did okay... With the additions they made it might be wise not to givew up on him yet...
- aminnes

Fransons the one who doesn't fit. Rocky a matter of time before Rielly takes over the #1 PP and Gardiner handles the #2. Couple hat with Franson wanting $4mil LAST summer, meaning he's probably asking for the again, it is best to trade him now instead of letting him walk next summer, or signing him long term to $4m plus...

I admit I have no idea what kind of a player Santorelli is, so I was wondering if he got any PP time last year.

Here's a weird but good little fact for you:

Of his 28 points in 49 games, none came on the power play. 2 points on the PK (both assists) and the rest even strength.

It's pretty interesting. Under Wilson they had much better possession numbers but really sucked. We spent years blaming the goalies and the trolls told us we were wrong. The possession analytics would tell us that we were right.

Now, with much better talent at the top end, possession sucks - like the worst ever measured. For a while I thought it was a combo of the system and the type of player the Leafs had. Now I'm just not sure. It's clearly a Carlyle issue though.

Whether a good possession system can fix this though ...I'm not sure yet. I still think the type of guys we have in the top 6 are the types that give you poor possession numbers. Either way Carlyle's on a short leash if this doesn't turn around.
- The Law

One thing to note is Anaheims possession #'s were bad when Carlyle was there as well, and Anaheim had very good individual possession players. As soon as they replaced Carlyle with Boudreau, their possession sky rocketed.

I honestly believe Carlyle is at the very root of the problem. And as much criticism as Wilson took, he had a bad team and bad goaltending. Now the Leafs are much better in both aspects. I think he would do a much better job than Carlyle.

I admit I have no idea what kind of a player Santorelli is, so I was wondering if he got any PP time last year.

Here's a weird but good little fact for you:

Of his 28 points in 49 games, none came on the power play. 2 points on the PK (both assists) and the rest even strength.
- Atomic Wedgie

I saw that stat and it impressed me. I think he can be even better palying with better players.

Ya I honestly don't get it. Del Zotto is not good. Nashville didn't even qualify him, he was that bad.
- Big_Lightnin

leafs fans don't watch other teams. Just hear of other players and assume they're good. MDZ is a worse gardiner. Last thing we need on this team.

Franson's issues are his skating and decision making. I'm afraid it may be too late for him to improve in those key skills.
- Woderwick

Agreed, reminds me of some d man captain out there... Your right, but again he was great with Fraser particularly in the playoffs... He needs to be used properly and he played a lot with the young guys who are as bad as he is or worse in their own end while they learn... Contract year I'd keep him, let him play PP and rack up some points, then trade him at the deadline for something...

I admit I have no idea what kind of a player Santorelli is, so I was wondering if he got any PP time last year.

Here's a weird but good little fact for you:

Of his 28 points in 49 games, none came on the power play. 2 points on the PK (both assists) and the rest even strength.
- Atomic Wedgie

That is pretty good secondary scoring stats, no PP almost all 5 on 5.

I admit I have no idea what kind of a player Santorelli is, so I was wondering if he got any PP time last year.

Here's a weird but good little fact for you:

Of his 28 points in 49 games, none came on the power play. 2 points on the PK (both assists) and the rest even strength.
- Atomic Wedgie

Or of Canucks fans weren't happy to see him go, for that salary. Solid depth signing I think, and has had good offensive numbers on the past. Could contribute on 2nd line if injuries become a factor

Agreed he was bad last year, but he is not that bad, and hasn't been in his career. He was very effective with devils on a variety of situations. He will be better, just needs to find his role on this team.
- Big_Lightnin

My problem is he was brought in for 5.25 to bring grit. And then he was put in a role to bring offense palying with Kadri/Lupul. That went to poops. So then he got demoted to 3rd line for grit. He didn't really bring that either. He falls over his own feet more than having the puck on his stick.

So, what is he?

Agreed, reminds me of some d man captain out there... Your right, but again he was great with Fraser particularly in the playoffs... He needs to be used properly and he played a lot with the young guys who are as bad as he is or worse in their own end while they learn... Contract year I'd keep him, let him play PP and rack up some points, then trade him at the deadline for something...
- aminnes

Almost guaranteed tht of they keep him, it's due to arbitration award, in which case they can't trade him at deadline (can they...that still the rule?)
The he goes ufa

Not even prime for 90 percent of d men...
- aminnes

of course it is.

That is pretty good secondary scoring stats, no PP almost all 5 on 5.
- LeafMan

Have heard he's a good possession player too. Let's just hope Carlyle doesnt kill that.

I admit I have no idea what kind of a player Santorelli is, so I was wondering if he got any PP time last year.

Here's a weird but good little fact for you:

Of his 28 points in 49 games, none came on the power play. 2 points on the PK (both assists) and the rest even strength.
- Atomic Wedgie

I listed his line mates last week. He played most with some talent...talent he won't play with on the Leafs unless they move him up to 2nd line. The most was with Higgins and Kessler.

My problem is he was brought in for 5.25 to bring grit. And then he was put in a role to bring offense palying with Kadri/Lupul. That went to poops. So then he got demoted to 3rd line for grit. He didn't really bring that either. He falls over his own feet more than having the puck on his stick.

So, what is he?
- peddy-93

water bottle FBI

One thing to note is Anaheims possession #'s were bad when Carlyle was there as well, and Anaheim had very good individual possession players. As soon as they replaced Carlyle with Boudreau, their possession sky rocketed.

I honestly believe Carlyle is at the very root of the problem. And as much criticism as Wilson took, he had a bad team and bad goaltending. Now the Leafs are much better in both aspects. I think he would do a much better job than Carlyle.
- peddy-93

Yup, but the unfortunate part of the Anaheim analysis is that the stats only go back to around 2007. It would be nice to know what the Ducks were like before Carlyle got there -during the Murray years.

The Ducks are better with Boudreau but they're still getting beat by better possession teams. So was the downturn just a result of Carlyle losing the room (pretty common with coaches ..especially coaches like him) in Anaheim. And was the upswing under Boudreau just related to a new voice/coach (also pretty common).

leafs fans don't watch other teams. Just hear of other players and assume they're good. MDZ is a worse gardiner. Last thing we need on this team.
- clark_griswold

I picked him in my pool last year. I saw too much of him, and it made me sad.

Have heard he's a good possession player too. Let's just hope Carlyle doesnt kill that.
- peddy-93

Oh to have a 3rd and 4th line to pin down the other team in their own zone, I forgotten what it looks like. lol.

My problem is he was brought in for 5.25 to bring grit. And then he was put in a role to bring offense palying with Kadri/Lupul. That went to poops. So then he got demoted to 3rd line for grit. He didn't really bring that either. He falls over his own feet more than having the puck on his stick.

So, what is he?
- peddy-93

Ya, you don't bring a 5-6 million dolar player in with no plan of how he fits... Another management boner...

I picked him in my pool last year. I saw too much of him, and it made me sad.
- Woderwick

he's like a mike green (poor man's mike green). Just started declining at a ridiculously young age

Best player of the 90's? At the very least it's debatable - he had 3-4 years where he was the best player and another 2-3 where it was close.
- The Law

Forsberg, Yzerman, Hasek, Id probably have Messier in there, Roy, Mario Lemieux even though he missed a few years later in the 90s, Wayne Gretzky was still okay, Sakic, Neely scored 50 three times in the 90s, Brett Hull scored, 72, 86, 70, 54, and 57 goal seasons in the 90s

86 goals is so sick

Oh to have a 3rd and 4th line to pin down the other team in their own zone, I forgotten what it looks like. lol.
- LeafMan

You forgot? I remember quite vivdily, it happens to us every game

of course it is.
- DoubleDown

Most guys start getting good around 27 28 for d men, other than the best guys that play awesome at 24-25 and sometimes younger. The vast majority of d men have their best years in their late 20's to early mid 30's...