Thank you Glen Healey
- Canada Cup

ew

P.K Subban is a great defenseman maybe top-5, but in comparison Erik Karlsson makes 6.5mil/year which is the* biggest steal ever, and he's a better defenseman. That's what happens when you wait too long to sign someone.
- TheCalSen

Neither are "Good" defensemen. Their defense is questionable.

They are, however, both great players. It's other skills that get them there...

Such a dumb argument. If both contracts were signed in same year - sure but comparing salaries when cap was $59M means very little.
- Canada Cup

When phanoof signed the cap was what 64? Big difference panthers fan

Everything is still up in the air, you could be right. I hope not though.
- elcabong

For your sake I do too.

Neither are "Good" defensemen. Their defense is questionable.

They are, however, both great players. It's other skills that get them there...
- lumlums

That's such a misconception. Both are good defensively, are they great? No. But Karlsson and PK have something most defenseman don't they have speed, so when they (frank) up they can practically skate back and regain the puck. IMO top-5 defenseman
1.Doughty
2.Karlsson
3.Weber
4.Ketih
5.Subban
Honorable Mentions: Chara, Suter.

When phanoof signed the cap was what 64? Big difference panthers fan
- Bigern4MVP

When he signed it was $50.3m...

When he signed it was $50.3m...
- lumlums

You mean 59 right

P.K Subban is a great defenseman maybe top-5, but in comparison Erik Karlsson makes 6.5mil/year which is the* biggest steal ever, and he's a better defenseman. That's what happens when you wait too long to sign someone.
- TheCalSen

Doughty @ 7. And Keith @5.5 are far bigger steals

That's such a misconception. Both are good defensively, are they great? No. But Karlsson and PK have something most defenseman don't they have speed, so when they (frank) up they can practically skate back and regain the puck. IMO top-5 defenseman
1.Doughty
2.Karlsson
3.Weber
4.Ketih
5.Subban
Honorable Mentions: Chara, Suter.
- TheCalSen

Karlsson at 2 is laughable ahead of weber keith and suter

That's such a misconception. Both are good defensively, are they great? No. But Karlsson and PK have something most defenseman don't they have speed, so when they (frank) up they can practically skate back and regain the puck. IMO top-5 defenseman
1.Doughty
2.Karlsson
3.Weber
4.Ketih
5.Subban
Honorable Mentions: Chara, Suter.
- TheCalSen

The fact that they can skate back means that they can cover for MOST of their mistakes. Both have relatively low regular season GF% (below 50%) and PDO (below 100), and both have CF% higher than their GF%. That to me indicates that they do generate a good number of shots, but that the shot the other team get while they are on the ice are of better quality, hence the lower GF%.

I do think that both are fantastic players, however are not top "defenseman". To me, putting Chara and Suter below either of them is just patently absurd.

Karlsson at 2 is laughable ahead of weber keith and suter
- Bigern4MVP

Out of the names you listed Weber is the only one you can make an argument over. I watched Keith in the Playoffs and he made a lot of turnovers and sometimes looked stiff as poop. Suter I don't watch much but I know he is overrated.

You mean 59 right
- Bigern4MVP

Nope. I googled "2007-08 nhl salary cap" (he was signed midway through that season if I recall" and got this:

"in 2007–08, the NHL's salary cap was approximately US$50.3 million per team; for the 2008–09 season it was $56.7 million; for the 2009-10 season it was $56.8 ..."

Though, as the cap hit wouldn't count until the next one we should technically use the $56.7m...

When phanoof signed the cap was what 64? Big difference panthers fan
- Bigern4MVP

Stay with me here

Contract takes effect in what year? 2014-15

What is cap in 2014-15? $69M

Stay with me here

Contract takes effect in what year? 2014-15

What is cap in 2014-15? $69M
- Canada Cup

Sorry don't follow what are we talking about again?

Out of the names you listed Weber is the only one you can make an argument over. I watched Keith in the Playoffs and he made a lot of turnovers and sometimes looked stiff as poop. Suter I don't watch much but I know he is overrated.
- TheCalSen

.......

Let's just get this over with. Subban for Kopecky and a 7th.

Out of the names you listed Weber is the only one you can make an argument over. I watched Keith in the Playoffs and he made a lot of turnovers and sometimes looked stiff as poop. Suter I don't watch much but I know he is overrated.
- TheCalSen

Most bias opinion I've ever seen karlsson is extremely overrated he is absolutely terrible outside of the offsensive zone and is a turnover machine he doesn't even count as a dman cause he doesn't play defense keith and suter are 10x better

Out of the names you listed Weber is the only one you can make an argument over. I watched Keith in the Playoffs and he made a lot of turnovers and sometimes looked stiff as poop. Suter I don't watch much but I know he is overrated.
- TheCalSen

Keith a norris and a gold in one year, but yes karlsson is much better

Guy looks like he could still play lol
- blizzzard

His elbows still work?

Dion shouldn't be the measuring stick
Just because leafs management made an error the entire league has to pay? Unfortunately it looks that way

Guys like weber Suter Alex p doughty should be the measuring stick
- MTL1

Pretty sure salaries were going to continue to increase regardless of what happened with Phaneuf, they always do.

Are you insinuating that PK isn't worth the $/term because of his "1 season with at least 40 pts"? I would suggest that you don't watch PK play much as he will be worth everything he gets. If Phanuef is worth 7 million (to the leafs and oilers) then Subban would be worth 11 million (to the leafs and oilers).
- SmielmaN

He is worth 11mil to any team

.......
- ehabs9

I don't watch him but I just know he's overrated there's logic right there

Out of the names you listed Weber is the only one you can make an argument over. I watched Keith in the Playoffs and he made a lot of turnovers and sometimes looked stiff as poop. Suter I don't watch much but I know he is overrated.
- TheCalSen

there aint a thing overrated about suters game. an absolute minute eater and fantastic at both ends. he doesn't make mistakes.

ive been defending subban this entire thread. the guy is a true game changer.
but two way defenders that are dominant at both ends are the crème of the crop cause the can hurt you without the puck.
that's why I believe at present neither karlsson nor subban should quite be in that very elite company.
and any diss on keith is laughable. the guy is phenomenal.

chara
keith
suter
weber
doughty

subban
karlsson
pietrangelo
mcdonagh
oel

Most bias opinion I've ever seen karlsson is extremely overrated he is absolutely terrible outside of the offsensive zone and is a turnover machine he doesn't even count as a dman cause he doesn't play defense keith and suter are 10x better
- Bigern4MVP

Agreed he is just a fan of him so bias

there aint a thing overrated about suters game. an absolute minute eater and fantastic at both ends. he doesn't make mistakes.

ive been defending subban this entire thread. the guy is a true game changer.
but two way defenders that are dominant at both ends are the crème of the crop.
that's why I believe at present neither karlsson nor subban should quite be in that elite company. and any diss on keith is laughable. the guy is phenomenal.

chara
keith
suter
weber
doughty

subban
karlsson
pietrangelo
mcdonagh
oel
- hugefemale dog77

ya but subban isnt 30 years old yet in a few more years he will be way better two way then he is now and be unstoppable.