Yeah, Hexy was here when Umberger was previously.

I think there were underlying factors besides contract length, too. I agree with what you have here.
- Jsaquella

Really interested to read your opinion on Aube-Kubel. The Flyers have certainly had a lot o success drafting centers out of the QMJHL. I get the impression this prospect has more room to grow after a pretty good first year in junior. Your thoughts.

i guess. i was hoping he'd get to keep 21 if they trade Thad. #foppa
- Crimsoninja

Obsession.

Really interested to read your opinion on Aube-Kubel. The Flyers have certainly had a lot o success drafting centers out of the QMJHL. I get the impression this prospect has more room to grow after a pretty good first year in junior. Your thoughts.
- ravishingone

From what I gathered after the pick, talking to OB18 who watches a ton of juniors and follows them more closely than I do, as well as Sportsology's Russ Cohen who hosts the Prospects Show on Xm Radio, he's a really good skater, ton of speed who can score.

Cohen said he doesn;t seem him as a center, because he's a "little waterbug" type, and got manhandled by bigger centers in the Q.

Whats the deal with the Mueller guy. How come he wasn't in the NHL last year?
- FlyersSteve118

He had concussion issues, and after a few injury plagued years ended up in Florida. Played well to start with the Panthers, but tailed off later...had a contract squablle with the Panthers and ended up in Europe.

Coming off a good year with the Kloten Flyers, he's drawing interest again.

Whats the deal with the Mueller guy. How come he wasn't in the NHL last year?
- FlyersSteve118

Dealt with injury and consistency issues and didn't get the deal he wanted last summer.

Took his game overseas for a better opportunity. Still very young and definitely an NHL caliber scorer, just needs the right fit.

Look at it this way.

The Kings won the cup. Anze Kopitar was 17th in the leauge in points, the next highest scoring King was Carter at 88th
- mochoson

We're not the Kings.

The Flyers didn't lose to the Rangers because of a lack of secondary scoring. they lost because they were badly outplayed at 5 on 5.

You need the team to be able to move the puck up ice and be able to generate an attack to score. You can have ten or fifteen 20 goal scorers, but if you can't get the puck out of your own end, you're not going to score.

That's the big issue, not needing a top line goal scorer. It's being a much better 200 foot team.
- Jsaquella

+1

We're not the Kings.
- SuperSchennBros

Nope, we've only won one playoff round in the time the Kings have won two cups. We are obviously not the Kings, yet.

Nope, we've only won one playoff round in the time the Kings have won two cups. We are obviously not the Kings, yet.
- mochoson

But you're flip flopping within this disbate.

I feel the Flyers could use a top six front line forward to help Giroux carry the load. One who could play with Giroux but also one who could hold his own without him. Simple.

You're bringing up other factors that don't exactly mesh. You bring up Voracek was 21st in scoring among wingers. It sounds great but overall he was 38th among forwards, while playing with Giroux who was third overall. They both also saw PP time together. They spent very little time apart. Your argument then becomes that the Kings Kopitar was 17th, while the next closest guy was Carter at 88. Well playing with the third best offensive threat in the league all year is a far cry from spotting time with the 17th best offensive threat in the league. Jeff Carter also flips between center and wing.

I've disagreed with PSG and don't ignore him. I've disagreed with others and don't ignore them.

I ignore people who can't simply can't stop arguing their point. You go on and on and on about every topic and get pissed when people don't respond. That's why I generally ignore you. because it gets (frank)ing tiresome. Same thing with mjl. I come here to kill time. If I want to be annoyed, I can mow the lawn or go to work
- Jsaquella

What's the point of debating or even a conversation then? We have a different in opinion about the team we're passionate about. If some listened a little more, they might learn something. Instead ehmgo gets in awhile and the argument as it were falls upon deaf ears because you're right, I'm wrong, end of story.

What's the point of debating or even a conversation then? We have a different in opinion about the team we're passionate about. If some listened a little more, they might learn something. Instead ehmgo gets in awhile and the argument as it were falls upon deaf ears because you're right, I'm wrong, end of story.
- SuperSchennBros

Exactly. There's no point.

I feel the Flyers could use a top six front line forward to help Giroux carry the load. One who could play with Giroux but also one who could hold his own without him. Simple.
- SuperSchennBros

I think we have that player now in Voracek. I think that line needs a player like Umberger or Simmonds to open up space for the other two.

Either that, or you move Voracek to line 2 with Coots/Schenn/Vinny and spread the dynamic offensive ability that only Jake and G posess across two times. I would prefer to do this, as I think it would significantly improve the team 5v5. We suck 5v5.

You're bringing up other factors that don't exactly mesh. You bring up Voracek was 21st in scoring among wingers. It sounds great but overall he was 38th among forwards, while playing with Giroux who was third overall. They both also saw PP time together. They spent very little time apart.

The bold is very true! However, I'm not trying to sell you Jake as an elite winger, because he's not. I referenced him being 20th amongst wingers to show you that if he's not elite, he's damn near close.

He's a scoring forward regardless, no? So if theres 6 scoring forwards per team and 30 teams in the league, that put's Jake 36/180. I'd say thats a pretty impressive feet to have a winger THAT good, considering we ALSO have without question one of the top 5 forwards in the entire league as well.

The other thing is that you have to look at the separation between G and Jake in those lists. Is the 24 point difference between then significant? Sure! Does closing the cap between our best winger and our best center make us that much better, especially when we have 5 (4 if one doesn't think Umberger can reach the mark) other 20 goal scorers? Nope.

Basically, I think the mindset you have is just greedy. How many teams can say they have a center of Giroux's caliber AND a winger like Voracek for him to play with? Not many. You basically want a guy like Taylor Hall or Patrick Marleau, a more shoot first winger who flirts with 75-80 points. I get it. I just don't think that's a priority at all.

Your argument then becomes that the Kings Kopitar was 17th, while the next closest guy was Carter at 88. Well playing with the third best offensive threat in the league all year is a far cry from spotting time with the 17th best offensive threat in the league. Jeff Carter also flips between center and wing.

You misunderstood the point I was trying to make. A team that has 2 cups in 3 years did it without a top 10 scorer, let alone a guy in the top 3 AND another guy in the top 40. Just trying to make the point that it's not all about offense and more about balancing the lines and being a hard team to play against.

From what I gathered after the pick, talking to OB18 who watches a ton of juniors and follows them more closely than I do, as well as Sportsology's Russ Cohen who hosts the Prospects Show on Xm Radio, he's a really good skater, ton of speed who can score.

Cohen said he doesn;t seem him as a center, because he's a "little waterbug" type, and got manhandled by bigger centers in the Q.
- Jsaquella

He reminds me of Marchand big time

He had concussion issues, and after a few injury plagued years ended up in Florida. Played well to start with the Panthers, but tailed off later...had a contract squablle with the Panthers and ended up in Europe.

Coming off a good year with the Kloten Flyers, he's drawing interest again.
- Jsaquella

Did he sign yet?

Did he sign yet?
- ob18

Nope. To my knowledge, Flyers and Sens have the most interest.

Yeah, there needs to be a better way to figure it out. But its damn near impossible because of how hard is it to keep that kind of stats.

29% QoC for Giroux is normally vs. #1 dmen and shutdown forwards while 29% QoC for Couturier is normally vs. top lines and second pair scoring dmen.
- FlyersSteve118

Yeah, it's a lot more useful to look at forward and defender QoC independent of each other... sometimes the F or D quality skews heavily one way or another.

Umberger and Hartsy may seem like they have the same QoC, but Umby was used in a Couturier role against the best F's, while Hartsy's QoC is skewed by facing a lot of top-pairing D.

Defenders also get a higher % of icetime, so that will pull 1st-line players QoC even higher.

Did he sign yet?
- ob18

No. Legwand is only signing of note today

I've disagreed with PSG and don't ignore him. I've disagreed with others and don't ignore them.

I ignore people who can't simply can't stop arguing their point. You go on and on and on about every topic and get pissed when people don't respond. That's why I generally ignore you. because it gets (frank)ing tiresome. Same thing with mjl. I come here to kill time. If I want to be annoyed, I can mow the lawn or go to work
- Jsaquella

I've disagreed with PSG and don't ignore him. I've disagreed with others and don't ignore them.

I ignore people who can't simply can't stop arguing their point. You go on and on and on about every topic and get pissed when people don't respond. That's why I generally ignore you. because it gets (frank)ing tiresome. Same thing with mjl. I come here to kill time. If I want to be annoyed, I can mow the lawn or go to work
- Jsaquella

If you let a thing like an internet blog about hockey get under your skin, you have some serious issues, IMO.

No. Legwand is only signing of note today
- Jsaquella

VDV!!!!

Whats the deal with the Mueller guy. How come he wasn't in the NHL last year?
- FlyersSteve118

For the Same Reason Heatley Likely wont play this season, because he sucks.

Anyone else catch the extremely high expectations Pens board here has for Downie? Expecting him to be a "nuclear deterrent" and run people to protect and retaliate for Crosby and Malkin being hit. A guy with hearing,balance,concussion and knee problems and issues with team mates. One hit to the head he will lose his hearing with another concussion. Sad to have high expectations like that for a player we cast off.

If you let a thing like an internet blog about hockey get under your skin, you have some serious issues, IMO.
- funmaster18

I wouldn't say it gets under my skin, because as soon as I log off it's pretty much forgotten. I kill time here, and generally have a good time talking pucks. There's a few people that tend to suck others into arguments, and unfortunately, I've had it happen to me too often.

At that point, it goes from time killer to annoyance. That's all. It's easier for me to ignore those folks and converse with the others.

Anyone else catch the extremely high expectations Pens board here has for Downie? Expecting him to be a "nuclear deterrent" and run people to protect and retaliate for Crosby and Malkin being hit. A guy with hearing,balance,concussion and knee problems and issues with team mates. One hit to the head he will lose his hearing with another concussion. Sad to have high expectations like that for a player we cast off.
- Steelmanpa

Considering how badly they shredded the Flyers for adding him last season, it's funny. I think he's a good addition for them, if he's healthy. He's low risk & if he can't perform or stay healthy it's a small price to deal with to bury him in the AHL

Anyone else catch the extremely high expectations Pens board here has for Downie? Expecting him to be a "nuclear deterrent" and run people to protect and retaliate for Crosby and Malkin being hit. A guy with hearing,balance,concussion and knee problems and issues with team mates. One hit to the head he will lose his hearing with another concussion. Sad to have high expectations like that for a player we cast off.
- Steelmanpa