Honestly, even if Vinny is gone, I'd shuffle the lines a good bit.
- Jsaquella

I agree completely. The solution to our problems is big time line shuffling. Can't keep Giroux and Voracek together. Our two best offensive players need to be seperated 5v5.

Read-Giroux-Simmonds
Schenn-Lecavalier-Voracek
Umberger-Couturier-Raffl

or

Read-Giroux-Simmonds
Umberger-Schenn-Voracek
Raffl-Couturier-Laughton/Akeson/TBD player

That's how you fix this team 5v5, at least up front.

Ha! I think it has always been more of a likelihood than we wanted to believe
- AllInForFlyers

So let me get this straight....

A team that had seven twenty goal scorers needs to subtract from that total of 7, and basically add in a 35-40 goal scorer? That's the solution to our problems?

The Rangers shutting down the Flyers offensively has to do with many factors. For one, their a good team with a great goalie. Secondly, the Flyers were one of the WORST 5v5 teams in the league last year. They were putrid. So of course great teams like the Rangers are going to shut down the Flyers, even with 4 decent lines of forwards.

I'm lost where adding a guy to Giroux's line to get that "1-2 punch" at offense is the solution to our problems. Subtract the Centers from the leagues top scorers, and Voracek is 21st in the leauge in points. We already have a star winger on this team, and he's already attached to G's hip. What you're asking for already isn't working.

Has nothing to do with adding something we don't have. It's making what we already have work better. We need to get better 5v5, and that's a team issue, not a solely a forward issue. You start that by separating Giroux and Jake 5v5 to get that "1-2" punch at forward you speak of. Every "1-2" you listed above are players that don't play with eachother 5v5 with the exception of Getzlaf and Perry and OV and Backstrom (the latter of which isn't working well, either).

I'm just really confused where we need to add scoring to this team when we were 8th in G/PG in the league. Makes absolutely no sense.
- mochoson

We would be a solid team without Giroux, but not a true contender. Like I said, he was shut down by the Rangers, so we didn't win. Not that we aren't a good team at all. Now if Giroux got hurt and the Rangers didn't have to focus in on Giroux so much? We wouldn't have even scored a goal against them, let alone take it to seven games.

Giroux draws the top defenders and makes them work hard minutes, still putting up a point per game average (or better). That is hard to do. Without him drawing those assignments and succeeding so well, the flyers' secondary scoring would have 0 chance.

Why not just disagree instead of insult?
- MJL

Is it insulting if it's true? My intention isn't to insult.

Oh ok. So he counts against the 10% overage, but they don't count him against the cap space because he is completely waiver exempt. Now it makes perfect sense. God NHL waiver rules are the worst.
- FlyersSteve118

Not really. I worded my one response badly. Guys like Vandevelde & Rinaldo are subject to waivers because of the length of time they have been under NHL contracts. It goes by service time, age when the player signed his first deal, etc.

Bellmare doesn't count because he's a two way deal, first signed at an advanced age.

Yeah, but I just assumed if you signed a player to a one way NHL contract, he would immediately be a part of the big club, not have to be recalled up from the Phantoms. That's confusing.
- FlyersSteve118

Bellemare isn't on a one-way contract according to capgeek. His salary is in orange because it drops down from $600K to $100K if he's in the AHL.

I agree completely. The solution to our problems is big time line shuffling. Can't keep Giroux and Voracek together. Our two best offensive players need to be seperated 5v5.

Read-Giroux-Simmonds
Schenn-Lecavalier-Voracek
Umberger-Couturier-Raffl

or

Read-Giroux-Simmonds
Umberger-Schenn-Voracek
Raffl-Couturier-Laughton/Akeson/TBD player

That's how you fix this team 5v5, at least up front.
- mochoson

If they can fix the 5 on 5 issues, they will be a better team, even without adding anyone.

So let me get this straight....

A team that had seven twenty goal scorers needs to subtract from that total of 7, and basically add in a 35-40 goal scorer? That's the solution to our problems?

The Rangers shutting down the Flyers offensively has to do with many factors. For one, their a good team with a great goalie. Secondly, the Flyers were one of the WORST 5v5 teams in the league last year. They were putrid. So of course great teams like the Rangers are going to shut down the Flyers, even with 4 decent lines of forwards.

I'm lost where adding a guy to Giroux's line to get that "1-2 punch" at offense is the solution to our problems. Subtract the Centers from the leagues top scorers, and Voracek is 21st in the leauge in points. We already have a star winger on this team, and he's already attached to G's hip. What you're asking for already isn't working.

Has nothing to do with adding something we don't have. It's making what we already have work better. We need to get better 5v5, and that's a team issue, not a solely a forward issue. You start that by separating Giroux and Jake 5v5 to get that "1-2" punch at forward you speak of. Every "1-2" you listed above are players that don't play with eachother 5v5 with the exception of Getzlaf and Perry and OV and Backstrom (the latter of which isn't working well, either).

I'm just really confused where we need to add scoring to this team when we were 8th in G/PG in the league. Makes absolutely no sense.
- mochoson

The bold seems about right.

Who says we have to separate Giroux from Voracek? Do you truly believe Voracek can be that second punch if Giroux were to get hurt, the same wat St Louis did for Tampa while Stamkos was hurt? I like Jake Voracek a lot but he does see 99% of his time with Giroux, one of the most offensively threatening centers in the entire league but he in my opinion isn't a dominating winger. He's very good, he could improve and get better but you do know there are three forwards on one line, right? There is nothing wrong with adding to this. There is nothing wrong with hoping for an equally as gifted 1/2 punch.

Make sense?

For me, getting the Rangers in the first round had more to do with seeing a bad match up in the first round then anything else. The Rangers have the Flyers number.

Keep him. Make amends. Let him thrive. (frank) the vultures. Move on and prove them wrong.
- wilsonecho91

I agree completely. The solution to our problems is big time line shuffling. Can't keep Giroux and Voracek together. Our two best offensive players need to be seperated 5v5.

Read-Giroux-Simmonds
Schenn-Lecavalier-Voracek
Umberger-Couturier-Raffl

or

Read-Giroux-Simmonds
Umberger-Schenn-Voracek
Raffl-Couturier-Laughton/Akeson/TBD player

That's how you fix this team 5v5, at least up front.
- mochoson

I think I'd try the first one, see what happens

Not really. I worded my one response badly. Guys like Vandevelde & Rinaldo are subject to waivers because of the length of time they have been under NHL contracts. It goes by service time, age when the player signed his first deal, etc.

Bellmare doesn't count because he's a two way deal, first signed at an advanced age.
- Jsaquella

No, Bellemare doesn't count on the off season cap because he did not spend time on the Flyers last year. His age when he signed has nothing to do with that.
His age only comes into play for his waiver status.

happy birthday, usa.

If they can fix the 5 on 5 issues, they will be a better team, even without adding anyone.
- Jsaquella

How can they fix 5v5 if they moved a strong possession player for a weak one? What have they done to get better in that area?

We would be a solid team without Giroux, but not a true contender. Like I said, he was shut down by the Rangers, so we didn't win. Not that we aren't a good team at all. Now if Giroux got hurt and the Rangers didn't have to focus in on Giroux so much? We wouldn't have even scored a goal against them, let alone take it to seven games.

Giroux draws the top defenders and makes them work hard minutes, still putting up a point per game average (or better). That is hard to do. Without him drawing those assignments and succeeding so well, the flyers' secondary scoring would have 0 chance.
- FlyersSteve118

This is all entirely subjective. We have no idea how this current team would fair without Giroux, because we haven't had to really do it yet. You just said it yourself how much Giroux does. We have no idea how well guys like Coots, Schenn, Simmonds, etc would perform with that extra responsibility.

The Flyer's didn't lose because "Giroux was shut down". It certainly didn't help of course, but that's not why we lost. There were many factors contributing to our losing. This team had seven 20 goal scorers, and all seven failed to make a difference because this team is terrible 5v5.

Is it insulting if it's true? My intention isn't to insult.
- mochoson

So it's a fact that I don't watch Hockey?

How can they fix 5v5 if they moved a strong possession player for a weak one? What have they done to get better in that area?
- PhillySportsGuy

You don't think the entire team can improve at 5 on 5 play?

This is all entirely subjective. We have no idea how this current team would fair without Giroux, because we haven't had to really do it yet. You just said it yourself how much Giroux does. We have no idea how well guys like Coots, Schenn, Simmonds, etc would perform with that extra responsibility.

The Flyer's didn't lose because "Giroux was shut down". It certainly didn't help of course, but that's not why we lost. There were many factors contributing to our losing. This team had seven 20 goal scorers, and all seven failed to make a difference because this team is terrible 5v5.
- mochoson

Giroux was hurt the first 15 games of this year. Thats the team we are without Giroux.

The bold seems about right.

Who says we have to separate Giroux from Voracek? Do you truly believe Voracek can be that second punch if Giroux were to get hurt, the same wat St Louis did for Tampa while Stamkos was hurt? I like Jake Voracek a lot but he does see 99% of his time with Giroux, one of the most offensively threatening centers in the entire league but he in my opinion isn't a dominating winger. He's very good, he could improve and get better but you do know there are three forwards on one line, right? There is nothing wrong with adding to this. There is nothing wrong with hoping for an equally as gifted 1/2 punch.

Make sense?

For me, getting the Rangers in the first round had more to do with seeing a bad match up in the first round then anything else. The Rangers have the Flyers number.
- SuperSchennBros

Do you think the Flyers should trade assets to get another elite forward or are you just venting about the team lacking another #1 scorer?

This is all entirely subjective. We have no idea how this current team would fair without Giroux, because we haven't had to really do it yet. You just said it yourself how much Giroux does. We have no idea how well guys like Coots, Schenn, Simmonds, etc would perform with that extra responsibility.

The Flyer's didn't lose because "Giroux was shut down". It certainly didn't help of course, but that's not why we lost. There were many factors contributing to our losing. This team had seven 20 goal scorers, and all seven failed to make a difference because this team is terrible 5v5.
- mochoson

I think a pretty safe educated guess can be made on how the team would fair without Giroux. And it wasn't the only reason why the Flyers lost to the Rangers, but it was certainly a big reason why.

How can they fix 5v5 if they moved a strong possession player for a weak one? What have they done to get better in that area?
- PhillySportsGuy

Because posession stats, like most advanced stats, are very specific and subjective.

We have no idea if Hartnell will continue to be a good posession player in Columbus , just like we have no idea if Umberger will improve or stay the same in the same category here.

Corsi, Fenwick, WOWYs, all need to be taken with a grain of salt. They really only help you to understand things that you can already see with your eyes, assuming one actually watches the games.

You don't think the entire team can improve at 5 on 5 play?
- MJL

Imo, the team is banking on Couts and Schenn taking a big step forward in their development. They've done very little to help this team improve at 5v5.

No, I'm just the only one courageous enough to argue your idiocy.
- mochoson

Your courageous to argue with me but not argue with me? I'm not understanding, you just said the post didn't deserve a detailed response....

How can they fix 5v5 if they moved a strong possession player for a weak one? What have they done to get better in that area?
- PhillySportsGuy

They get a full off season and pre season to really learn Berube's system and commit to it. Berube's system might be a little more complex now that he will have time to teach it to the players with greater detail.

Not saying that is going to happen, just that is one possibility.

At least.. I hope.

How can they fix 5v5 if they moved a strong possession player for a weak one? What have they done to get better in that area?
- PhillySportsGuy

I would think that they are counting on internal improvement from a couple of players and some improved consistency with systems play.

Because posession stats, like most advanced stats, are very specific and subjective.

We have no idea if Hartnell will continue to be a good posession player in Columbus , just like we have no idea if Umberger will improve or stay the same in the same category here.

Corsi, Fenwick, WOWYs, all need to be taken with a grain of salt. They really only help you to understand things that you can already see with your eyes, assuming one actually watches the games.
- mochoson

Most fans in Columbus were happy to see Umberger gone and viewed him as a bit of an anchor.