At this point, I think it may be a while before we see us obtain any defensive help.
As much as it may bother some, I don't think it's a high priority to make a fast move for a dman. Yes we need one, but this team is much better than last season already and won't be pressured into paying an expensive premium via trade for defensive help. In some ways, we're now in the drivers seat on any trade negotiations, which gives us the option of taking it slow.

We unquestionably need a top four dman, but I think many will be surprised to see how much a more lethal forward corps (which we now have) and strong goaltending tandem will help. Add in the fact that Hamonic, de Haan, Czurczman, Hickey and Donovan all have more playing experience, a healthy Vis (hopefully for an extended period) and up and coming Mayfield/Reinhart additions and I think this team has the potential to be miles ahead of last season.

Obviously if we throw a top four guy in there this team looks better than it has in over a decade, but my point is, we don't have to be forced into a heavy payment now. Time is on our side.

When you are the 30th ranked penalty kill you have no good penalty killers
- Dan Petriw

I understand but he is still a damn good penalty killer. His speed is something you can not replace. I rather see Bailey go and or Frans. Grabner has more skills then Bailey hands down. I understand you have to give up something to get something but I also feel teams would rather have prospects at this point and we have tons of them

At this point, I think it may be a while before we see us obtain any defensive help.
As much as it may bother some, I don't think it's a high priority to make a fast move for a dman. Yes we need one, but this team is much better than last season already and won't be pressured into paying an expensive premium via trade for defensive help. In some ways, we're now in the drivers seat on any trade negotiations, which gives us the option of taking it slow.

We unquestionably need a top four dman, but I think many will be surprised to see how much a more lethal forward corps (which we now have) and strong goaltending tandem will help. Add in the fact that Hamonic, de Haan, Czurczman, Hickey and Donovan all have more playing experience, a healthy Vis (hopefully for an extended period) and up and coming Mayfield/Reinhart additions and I think this team has the potential to be miles ahead of last season.

Obviously if we throw a top four guy in there this team looks better than it has in over a decade, but my point is, we don't have to be forced into a heavy payment now. Time is on our side.
- keaner17

I also think it may take a while to see a deal. As much as I would like to see a deal today, I'd rather the Isles not rush into a bad deal.

In regards to Frans, while I like him a lot and he obviously produced very well last year, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a 'sell high' stance on him.

I hate the idea of losing either Frans or Grabner, but the talent in line to replace them is a good bit more diverse (size, skill etc). If either of those guys coupled with a second tier prospect and reclamation project in Bailey could bring back an impact dman, I'd be more than willing to wish them the best.

At this point, I think it may be a while before we see us obtain any defensive help.
As much as it may bother some, I don't think it's a high priority to make a fast move for a dman. Yes we need one, but this team is much better than last season already and won't be pressured into paying an expensive premium via trade for defensive help. In some ways, we're now in the drivers seat on any trade negotiations, which gives us the option of taking it slow.

We unquestionably need a top four dman, but I think many will be surprised to see how much a more lethal forward corps (which we now have) and strong goaltending tandem will help. Add in the fact that Hamonic, de Haan, Czurczman, Hickey and Donovan all have more playing experience, a healthy Vis (hopefully for an extended period) and up and coming Mayfield/Reinhart additions and I think this team has the potential to be miles ahead of last season.

Obviously if we throw a top four guy in there this team looks better than it has in over a decade, but my point is, we don't have to be forced into a heavy payment now. Time is on our side.
- keaner17

Nah we need a defenseman. WE saw to many times last year the holes in our defense. You can say that they are young or whatever but we need someone to anchor the defense

I understand but he is still a damn good penalty killer. His speed is something you can not replace. I rather see Bailey go and or Frans. Grabner has more skills then Bailey hands down. I understand you have to give up something to get something but I also feel teams would rather have prospects at this point and we have tons of them
- kasperrko

Not sure I'd say Grabs has more skill, but his speed is something you cannot teach. For all the griping folks make about his missed breakaway attempts, the fact is the guy creates more scoring chances than anyone on this team not named Tavares. He forces dmen to be aware and stretches the ice very well. That's tough to replace. In all honesty, I'd rather keep Grabs than either Frans or Bailey. I think both Frans and Bailey have very replaceable skillsets.

Why not? He's been one of the better players consistently. I like him, I'm just not sure there will be a place for him in a few years.
- JimmyP

I just have different views on players, just my opinion. But he has done a fine job here and like I've mentioned a million times I'm not trading for trade sake but willing to improve the talent/roster at almost any cost.

Nah we need a defenseman. WE saw to many times last year the holes in our defense. You can say that they are young or whatever but we need someone to anchor the defense
- kasperrko

Not disputing that we need a dman, but I don't think that need is as dire as you may think. Sometimes your best defense is a good offense, and this team has definitely improved on that. Couple that with a damn good goalie pairing and our desperation for a dman can be tempered with a bit more patience.

I just have different views on players, just my opinion. But he has done a fine job here and like I've mentioned a million times I'm not trading for trade sake but willing to improve the talent/roster at almost any cost.
- Ur Not Me

I think we can all agree on that.

I would not trade Grabner. He is your best penalty killer and that is something so important. Like Is aid trade Frans before you move Grabner. You can not replace his speed on the penalty kill
- kasperrko

Don't get me wrong I like Grabner and everything, but I couldn't disagree more than this.

When you are the 30th ranked penalty kill you have no good penalty killers
- Dan Petriw

The Penalty kill would have been a whole lot better if we just let in less goals!!



XxNYIxX

Not disputing that we need a dman, but I don't think that need is as dire as you may think. Sometimes your best defense is a good offense, and this team has definitely improved on that. Couple that with a damn good goalie pairing and our desperation for a dman can be tempered with a bit more patience.
- keaner17

True but still this team is in dire need of a solid defenseman. We don't know how the offense will be this year and as the old adage goes "Defense wins Championships"

When you are the 30th ranked penalty kill you have no good penalty killers
- Dan Petriw

Agreed, and also we have Clutterbuck, CC, and now Kulemin who are decent enough penalty killers

Nah we need a defenseman. WE saw to many times last year the holes in our defense. You can say that they are young or whatever but we need someone to anchor the defense
- kasperrko

We do, and I wouldn't mind if this Bailey + for Phaneuf deal goes thru & nothing else happens after bc I wouldn't mind keeping the roster as is at the F position and add Phaneuf to backend and still have moveable assets if anything is needed during the season.

Hammer/DeHaan/Phaneuf is a good 3

Viz/Reinhart/Donovan/Strait/Hickey/Carkner - to fill up rest is ok/not bad to start with

Don't get me wrong I like Grabner and everything, but I couldn't disagree more than this.
- eichiefs9

As Keaner said he makes more scoring chance then almost anyone on the team. His speed you can not replace. If you think Bailey is better than him well hmmm I don't know what to say to that. Frans yes is a great player but with the signings it kind of pushes either him or Bailey out

Agreed, and also we have Clutterbuck, CC, and now Kulemin who are decent enough penalty killers
- jwbadlands

Still Grabner was better than all of them. LEts see what scoring chances they produce. Without Grabner there will not be much shorthanded goals

Still Grabner was better than all of them. LEts see what scoring chances they produce. Without Grabner there will not be much shorthanded goals
- kasperrko

I think Clutterbuck led team last year in SHG, but not sure??

Grabner's best ability, and the reason I've been probably his biggest fan on this board, is his ability to get the play going in the other direction in a hurry, and seemingly out of nowhere. He's one of the few players we have who plays well in the neutral zone and creates turnovers there...often while everyone else is backing up at mach 5 into their own goalie.

I wouldn't be too eager to trade him, or Frans for that matter. I think it's a bit crazy how Frans is thrown into virtually every proposal here for any defenseman. I'd say he's the most valuable forward after Tavares...even more so than KO. I think KO is far better in some aspects of the game for sure, but Nielsen is more versatile.

All that said, I don't think either of those guys is untouchable. I'm just not kicking them out the door for any defenseman. If a team is really cap-strapped, maybe see if Bailey and one or two of the 650 defensive prospects we have can fetch something worthwhile. Martin, at only a $1m cap hit, might be attractive if packaged with the right prospect...maybe not for an all-star D, but for a decent one who is perhaps overpaid.

I can see where Frans would get a lot of demand though...for all he brings to the table at a $2.75m cap hit...

edit -- I concede that Grabner is prone to a lazy play or two here or there that makes you smack your head, but I think the good far outweighs the bad.

As Keaner said he makes more scoring chance then almost anyone on the team. His speed you can not replace. If you think Bailey is better than him well hmmm I don't know what to say to that. Frans yes is a great player but with the signings it kind of pushes either him or Bailey out
- kasperrko

I don't see how it pushes Frans out. Depth down the middle is incredibly important. He's reasonably priced and gives us extremely good depth at center. Bailey and Grabner are expendable. You can have all the talent in the world on the wings but if you have no centers it's all for naught. Ask the Leafs about that. Phil Kessel is world class talent, but their centers are nothing to shake a stick at right now.

Grabner's speed is great, no arguing it but he's more replaceable than Nielsen is.

Nielsen is great defensively and if he can score 50-60pts per year in addition then I think he's exponentially more valuable than Grabner/Bailey.

I think Clutterbuck led team last year in SHG, but not sure??
- Ur Not Me

Yeah but Grabner was the one clearing the puck or even helping with the goals. I just think he is a great penalty killer and everytime he is killing off penalties there is always a chance to score

Still Grabner was better than all of them. LEts see what scoring chances they produce. Without Grabner there will not be much shorthanded goals
- kasperrko

It's nice to get shorthanded goals but last year that was about the only way we could score, this year should be different, remember I said "should be"

I don't see how it pushes Frans out. Depth down the middle is incredibly important. He's reasonably priced and gives us extremely good depth at center. Bailey and Grabner are expendable. You can have all the talent in the world on the wings but if you have no centers it's all for naught. Ask the Leafs about that. Phil Kessel is world class talent, but their centers are nothing to shake a stick at right now.

Grabner's speed is great, no arguing it but he's more replaceable than Nielsen is.

Nielsen is great defensively and if he can score 50-60pts per year in addition then I think he's exponentially more valuable than Grabner/Bailey.
- eichiefs9

and this is why I would trade him. You have to give up something to get something. He will fetch a better defenseman than Grabner and if he goes well we still have the kids everyone wants to play to replace him

Do you guys think that we signed these 2 gentlemen based on Garth having a deal in place involving a couple of our current players or did he add them hoping to make a deal for a D man?
- jwbadlands

I hope the former bcs that would mean there was some sort of plan

If grabner drove the net, like he did his rookie season... Could hit the net.. Stay in his lanes and back check consistently he would be a top six player. Grabner is a nice player but if he yields a good dman, you gotta move him
- Dan Petriw

I'm a big fan of Grabner as most know on here but I agree.

When you are the 30th ranked penalty kill you have no good penalty killers
- Dan Petriw

OR you can have a good penalty killer and a really bad coach.