Flyer fans are losing it! Flip over to their board if you need some laughs! A few gems...

"So let me see if I got this right: We are gonna trade Vinnie and sign Ott. Then, if Ott doesn't let Giroux grab his ass, we'll have newly re-signed Ray Emery beat some sense into him. Just another ho-hum offseason "

"its funny becuase of how stupid it is, why us, now our captain is a guy a$$ grabber, wtf is that."
- 87_71_11_29

I've been there the last 300 or so posts... also I'm doing nothing to help their maturity, but its making the work day go by faster.

everyone knew that an almost conference finalist wasn't a cup team? when did everyone get this power of telling the future and leave me in the dust!
- ChrisMS

Well, we didn't make it to the conference finals, we almost got knocked by CBJ (who played admirably), and we dropped a 3-1 lead over the Rangers. Granted the Rangers ended up going to the Stanley Cup finals, but still.

The point I'm making is that our team had serious depth and grit issues last season and that was no secret. You look at the past 5 teams to win cups and they all look similar, and our team looked nothing like them. I don't advocate losing a season by trading a piece that could put you over the top even if you're chances of winning it all seem slim. I'm questioning whether or not Niskanen was that piece. It seemed to me that anyone who thought about it long enough came to the conclusion that Matty's numbers were at least partially inflated, and by the way our young guns played in the middle of the season, I question whether or not he was essential moving forward into that cup run.

If just making the playoffs was the goal, Blysma and Shero would both still have jobs. It's no secret that it's Cup or bust in ownerships eyes. With two top 5 players, anything less is underachieving.
- cap1681

From the quotes by Morehouse, Burkle, and Lemieux, it was more about process than results.

Cup or bust sounds nice, but it's a poor business model. Philly shipped out Richards and Carter under the mantra of Cup or bust, and then got to watch those guys drink from it wearing Kings uniforms.

you make an assumption that the bottom 6 can't be balanced without moving dupius. sutter/spalding/comeau/adams/downie/goc/megna/fa could be just as effective in finf=ding a bottom 6 that has balance
- ChrisMS

Well that is true about those guys finding a balance.. we have more bottom 6 guys then top 6 guys and dupes is grouped in the bottom 6 guys...and with bringing in more bottom 6 guys via free agency you are basically not letting guys like gibbons megna payerl sill etc get a chance until someone gets injured...

Let the kids play...

Megna payerl sheary have more upside then Downie goc adams... and could fit into the same role...

In your opinion. In my opinion, winning the division and being a game away from the ECF, in part due to Niskanen's large contributions, trumps whatever meager package he would have brought back last offseason.

But I understand that some people have the Cup or bust mentality. I was disappointed with how the season ended, but that didn't negate the successes that occurred completely, IMO.
- hardnosed

There was no chance this team was winning the cup with their 3rd and 4th line and running Engelland or Scuds out there on defense. They should have traded Nisk, just like they should trade Martin. If you are going to trade him, now is the time. You play the young guys, see what they can do and go from there. I would rather have them play now and find out if they can/cant play and then make trades if need be. You don't let a quality player leave for nothing. I don't want to hear the, you get 5 mil back.

Now Ek has us in on Grabovski.....

"Grabovski to Pitt or Carolina? (E4)

"Hearing this could be up next...""


Is he retarded?

and by the way our young guns played in the middle of the season, I question whether or not he was essential moving forward into that cup run.
- Victoro311

The young defensemen impressed by treading water and not looking out of place, not by pushing the play. And it's not like they were long auditions. Dumoulin was up for 6 games, Samuelsson for 5. They combined for 0 goals, 1 assist in those 11 games. That would not have replaced what Niskanen brought offensively.

As long as Crosby and Malkin are on the team, I never want the FO to think that the Penguins aren't a Cup team. Niskanen's presence had them one win away from a winnable ECF, and in the Finals anything can happen. The Penguins weren't the league's best team last year, but the Rangers showed why what's on paper doesn't matter.

I just don't like hypotheticals based on hindsight, they're not useful. Keeping Niskanen was the right move last offseason, and it was proved during the season. The fact that it didn't result in a Cup means nothing, and should not (and thankfully is not) be the basis of roster evaluation.
- hardnosed

As much as it sounds like it, this isn't hypocritical hind site on my part. I was advocating Niskanen's trade before the season started, and continued to do so as his stock kept climbing. Niskanen did very well as PP QB in the playoffs, but Martin could have also, and Letang may have if he had kept with it, so not so much.

Niskanen had a great playoffs. I will not deny that. I'm just not sold that the production couldn't have been replicated without him. That is all. Lets see how he does on the Caps, and if he continues to be a stud on the lack luster team I will eat my words.

As long as Crosby and Malkin are on the team, I never want the FO to think that the Penguins aren't a Cup team. Niskanen's presence had them one win away from a winnable ECF, and in the Finals anything can happen. The Penguins weren't the league's best team last year, but the Rangers showed why what's on paper doesn't matter.

I just don't like hypotheticals based on hindsight, they're not useful. Keeping Niskanen was the right move last offseason, and it was proved during the season. The fact that it didn't result in a Cup means nothing, and should not (and thankfully is not) be the basis of roster evaluation.
- hardnosed

you don't like hypothetical, but have no problem saying they were 1 win away from a winnable ECF and then anything can happen in the finals LOL This team was put together very poorly, every knew it. Keeping Nisk was not the right move, keeping Martin and letting him walk, is not the right move.

Well that is true about those guys finding a balance.. we have more bottom 6 guys then top 6 guys and dupes is grouped in the bottom 6 guys...and with bringing in more bottom 6 guys via free agency you are basically not letting guys like gibbons megna payerl sill etc get a chance until someone gets injured...

Let the kids play...

Megna payerl sheary have more upside then Downie goc adams... and could fit into the same role...
- nh4442

until dupius proves he should be demoted he will play on the top 6. when he gets bumped out then he will bring his skills to the bottom 6. no top 6 options were good for the pens in FA, do to cost or talent. JR is making the best with what he can by getting forward lines finlled out, on the cheap, and leaving room for future improvement.

There was no chance this team was winning the cup with their 3rd and 4th line and running Engelland or Scuds out there on defense. They should have traded Nisk, just like they should trade Martin. If you are going to trade him, now is the time. You play the young guys, see what they can do and go from there. I would rather have them play now and find out if they can/cant play and then make trades if need be. You don't let a quality player leave for nothing. I don't want to hear the, you get 5 mil back.
- Thorny

I'd rather just keep Martin, than to trade off assets to get a lesser quality defenseman later.

The FO wisely appears to be unwilling to depend entirely on young defensemen this season. Depending on two (like, Maatta and Despres) is plenty, especially in the playoffs.

Would you say that the Penguins are Cup-bound if they go into the playoffs with Ehrhoff/Letang/Scuderi/Maatta/Despres/Dumolin?

Are the Penguins Cup bound? If not, does that mean Ehrhoff was a bad signing? Should they trade him not for assets, so they don't lose him for nothing?

"Grabovski to Pitt or Carolina? (E4)

"Hearing this could be up next...""


Is he retarded?
- Guile

Ryan is gonna have the same reaction bartley did to Downie!

The young defensemen impressed by treading water and not looking out of place, not by pushing the play. And it's not like they were long auditions. Dumoulin was up for 6 games, Samuelsson for 5. They combined for 0 goals, 1 assist in those 11 games. That would not have replaced what Niskanen brought offensively.
- hardnosed

You were also the one banging the drum to play Engelland over Despres last season. I guess that was the right move too right? I mean, the division is clinched, you have about 10 games worth that really didnt mean much. Why in the world you wouldnt play Despres is beyond me. Why wouldnt you play some of the young guys there, instead of rolling out scuds and engelland

you don't like hypothetical, but have no problem saying they were 1 win away from a winnable ECF and then anything can happen in the finals LOL This team was put together very poorly, every knew it. Keeping Nisk was not the right move, keeping Martin and letting him walk, is not the right move.
- Thorny

How is that a hypothetical? That's simply stating that for a team that everyone supposedly knew wasn't a Cup team, they honestly weren't that far away from a Cup.

Ryan is gonna have the same reaction bartley did to Downie!
- ChrisMS

This just makes less than zero sense... We have 3 signed centers, and 2 with QOs out on them. Why would we pursue, ANOTHER one? We already have the backup plan if Sutter gets greedy in place.. JR really wants a backup for the backup plan?

I'd rather just keep Martin, than to trade off assets to get a lesser quality defenseman later.

The FO wisely appears to be unwilling to depend entirely on young defensemen this season. Depending on two (like, Maatta and Despres) is plenty, especially in the playoffs.

Would you say that the Penguins are Cup-bound if they go into the playoffs with Ehrhoff/Letang/Scuderi/Maatta/Despres/Dumolin?

Are the Penguins Cup bound? If not, does that mean Ehrhoff was a bad signing? Should they trade him not for assets, so they don't lose him for nothing?
- hardnosed

I dont see how Matta, Despres, Dumolin and Burts can be any worse than Engelland, Scuds, Orpik. You also get to see if the young kids can play. I would rather know at the start of the year if they can play, then after the trade deadline when it can be fixed.

1) good convo chris, one pen, and hardnosed

2) ek stole my rumor... I said from beginning grabo and kuli to pens and that way then let sutter get offer sheeted. ...

Now that was before goc and downie signing lol

You were also the one banging the drum to play Engelland over Despres last season. I guess that was the right move too right? I mean, the division is clinched, you have about 10 games worth that really didnt mean much. Why in the world you wouldnt play Despres is beyond me. Why wouldnt you play some of the young guys there, instead of rolling out scuds and engelland
- Thorny

I wasn't banging the drum, just quelling the idea that Despres was some kind of polished finished product that made the Penguins significantly better.

Despres getting the chance to dominate (finally) in the AHL during the playoffs was more meaningful than 10 meaningless late season games would have been.

Molinari said that Downie has been working out this offseason with Gary Roberts.........

This just makes less than zero sense... We have 3 signed centers, and 2 with QOs out on them. Why would we pursue, ANOTHER one? We already have the backup plan if Sutter gets greedy in place.. JR really wants a backup for the backup plan?
- Guile

if it had any reality, its a russian to play malkins wing and add more versitility. OR

OR

Top line
Kunitz-Crosby-Malkin
?-Grabowski-PH

ow bout dem apples

In this scenario I believe Dumoulin and Harrington get sent back down they don't have to clear waivers. Samuelsson does
- dbell646

Entirely possible. Just saying the "There is no place for young guys on D now" is a bit over blown.

Molinari said that Downie has been working out this offseason with Gary Roberts.........
- cap1681

Everyone loves Scary Gary...

1) good convo chris, one pen, and hardnosed

2) ek stole my rumor... I said from beginning grabo and kuli to pens and that way then let sutter get offer sheeted. ...

Now that was before goc and downie signing lol
- nh4442

I dont see how Matta, Despres, Dumolin and Burts can be any worse than Engelland, Scuds, Orpik. You also get to see if the young kids can play. I would rather know at the start of the year if they can play, then after the trade deadline when it can be fixed.
- Thorny

Not sure how that comparison makes sense as it concerns whether to trade Martin or not.

It would be whether:

Ehrhoff/Letang/Martin/Scuderi/Maatta/Despres/Borts

is more likely to produce a Cup than:

Ehrhoff/Letang/Scuderi/Maatta/Despres/Borts/Dumoulin

Question remains - is next year's team a Cup team? If not, should the FO trade Ehrhoff now?