It think old man Rutherford mixed up his words.. He said pens need top 9 help but it looks like bottom 9 is all he is signing... he'll make that bottom 6... we all botched about having a team with all 3rd 4th liners and most of you are happy with him building a team of 3rd and 4th liners because he got them cheap... I'm all for low cap low length contracts but wtf....

I just don't see his master plan here.... OK he got a top 6 guy when he traded a top 6 guy but cmon... is he really betting on kapanen making team to not go after an elite winger for sid or even geno bf who he puts up pts with everytime they play...

I'm sorry I just don't understand until there is another trade or something....

Sorry I don't look at the corsi as much and understand if this is the money ball team of hockey. Almost everything I have read from tiops and MolinariPG et all is saying JR really didn't help out the team... but yes I am very thankful he didn't bring any off the ufas back
- nh4442

Agree with alot of this.

He could get hurt in the 1st game and be out for the season. Would rather get something to bolster the top 6 now.
- cap1681

And Sidney Crosby could quit playing hockey and run for PM, but that's not how strategic decisions are made.

Top 6 I believe is done. Martin is needed to start the season, and it makes no sense to move him after he and Letang worked so well together.

Personally, I think he stays in Pittsburgh and walks next summer.

A bit dramatic... These guys get paid to play a sport and paid well. I think they understand the risk/reward of it. You can't take being physical out of sports.
- lloyd095

no one wants that. they want to make physical safer and eliminate the garbage. neals knee to the head followed by thorntons play are prime examples. bountygate another, using football. new technologies in protective gear, and eliminating hits (i.e. head hits) that have been proven to cause long term damage. sports have to grow with new research and technologies.

Some very good prospects have gone at the deadline. I would rather take a close to being ready made forward prospect than a mid to late first round pick that you have to wait on for two, three or four years at least.

We have a glaring spot in our lineup; up to the cap and won't be able to keep him. Teams will trade more for Martin now knowing they would have a full year, not 20 games. If we didn't have younger options like Dumoullin, Samuelsson, Harrington, Pouliot once he gets back to health, I'd say wait and deal him.
- Oneonta Penguin

Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of moving Martin at all, barring unforeseen issues. It's just that, like I keep saying, there are plenty of scenarios where trading Martin at the deadline makes sense.

And Sidney Crosby could quit playing hockey and run for PM, but that's not how strategic decisions are made.

Top 6 I believe is done. Martin is needed to start the season, and it makes no sense to move him after he and Letang worked so well together.

Personally, I think he stays in Pittsburgh and walks next summer.
- hardnosed

And that is poor asset management for an organization that has a glaring void of quality forward prospects. Loosing an asset like that for nothing isn't a good thing.

Letang-Martin
Ehrhoff-Bortuzzo
Scuderi-????

One spot for 4 guys, and once Maatta comes back, there's nothing.
- cap1681

When was the last time the Penguins made it an entire month without an injury (guy out for a week or more) on defense, let alone a whole season?

There will be spots open.

It think old man Rutherford mixed up his words.. He said pens need top 9 help but it looks like bottom 9 is all he is signing... he'll make that bottom 6... we all botched about having a team with all 3rd 4th liners and most of you are happy with him building a team of 3rd and 4th liners because he got them cheap... I'm all for low cap low length contracts but wtf....

I just don't see his master plan here.... OK he got a top 6 guy when he traded a top 6 guy but cmon... is he really betting on kapanen making team to not go after an elite winger for sid or even geno bf who he puts up pts with everytime they play...

I'm sorry I just don't understand until there is another trade or something....

Sorry I don't look at the corsi as much and understand if this is the money ball team of hockey. Almost everything I have read from tiops and MolinariPG et all is saying JR really didn't help out the team... but yes I am very thankful he didn't bring any off the ufas back
- nh4442

He got Geno a winger - Hornqvist. And Sid's got a new winger too - Dupuis.

And Sidney Crosby could quit playing hockey and run for PM, but that's not how strategic decisions are made.

Top 6 I believe is done. Martin is needed to start the season, and it makes no sense to move him after he and Letang worked so well together.

Personally, I think he stays in Pittsburgh and walks next summer.
- hardnosed

Except Martin being hurt has proven to be very likely...Crosby running for PM, don't see happening. I understand what you are saying about Martin, but they just lost Nisk for nothing, Orpik for nothing, you can't lose Martin for nothing. Just can't keep letting assets walk away for free. If you can package Martin in a deal for a legit top 6, then you do it.

Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of moving Martin at all, barring unforeseen issues. It's just that, like I keep saying, there are plenty of scenarios where trading Martin at the deadline makes sense.
- hardnosed

I know where you stand. I totally disagree with it. There is more negative that comes out of that then positive.

And that is poor asset management for an organization that has a glaring void of quality forward prospects. Loosing an asset like that for nothing isn't a good thing.
- Oneonta Penguin

They won't be losing him for nothing. They'll be getting $5 mil in cap space, which is likely the biggest asset they'd get if they traded him now.

And the only way to restock the farm is to keep their draft picks. If they trade Martin now, then become serious contenders, they would likely need to add a veteran defenseman at the deadline, having only 3 in-house without Martin.

Thats pretty much dumping Martin for cap space... he has value.
- Guile

Pearson scored 37 goals and had 91 points in the OHL and was drafted in the 1st round in 2012. He has value and it would not just be a salary dump

They won't be losing him for nothing. They'll be getting $5 mil in cap space, which is likely the biggest asset they'd get if they traded him now.

And the only way to restock the farm is to keep their draft picks. If they trade Martin now, then become serious contenders, they would likely need to add a veteran defenseman at the deadline, having only 3 in-house without Martin.
- hardnosed

There is a fat chance Martin is traded by JR at the deadline. You need to maximize the asset to the fullest. Yep, you lose five million in cap space, but you need to acquire picks and prospects too. That is how asset management works to me. How about letting one of the kids gain a spot if he earns it?

This roster has a major hole it in right now.

They won't be losing him for nothing. They'll be getting $5 mil in cap space, which is likely the biggest asset they'd get if they traded him now.

And the only way to restock the farm is to keep their draft picks. If they trade Martin now, then become serious contenders, they would likely need to add a veteran defenseman at the deadline, having only 3 in-house without Martin.
- hardnosed

After teams just dished out a boat load of money for defenseman not the quality of Martin why do you think he wouldn't return anything?

He got Geno a winger - Hornqvist. And Sid's got a new winger too - Dupuis.
- hardnosed

Let's be realistic. I have been a dupes 1st line hater for a while but that is bc I have been a coach for over 10 yrs and my coaching strategy is to balance line. Dupes is a 3rd line guy. He did well on the 1st line and DB fell in love with him there. But he is a 3rd liner and he would balance the lines more as a 3rd liner.... factor in his age and his knee injury and he is not going to be the dupes that everyone wants him to be. You have to let other slide in there to work with sid. Ie bennett Hornqvist kapanen etc... key is young guys...

Saying he deserves a shot on the 1st line bc of his play 3 yrs ago is BS. .. As well as those two r the only ones sid wants to play with...

Also we have a lot of young guys that will give you more passion and hard work to get a starting job then guys like Downie and goc and scuds... look at every call up last year and how they played...so why not let some of the young D play... how the hell are they going to make the jump to pros without an opportunity? ?

If that is the case then just not have a minor team with prospects and only go after established players

Except Martin being hurt has proven to be very likely...Crosby running for PM, don't see happening. I understand what you are saying about Martin, but they just lost Nisk for nothing, Orpik for nothing, you can't lose Martin for nothing. Just can't keep letting assets walk away for free. If you can package Martin in a deal for a legit top 6, then you do it.
- Thorny

Similar argument to what was going on with Niskanen at this time last year. Most wanted to trade him to free up space for a winger. Shero held onto him. Was that the right call? What is the value of one season of stellar hockey that helps the team win in terms of asset management?

And why don't the same arguments cut both ways?

If Martin is always hurt, why would some team give up a talented top 6 prospect for him?

If Martin is a FA next summer, and it's bad asset management to get nothing for him, why would another team give up a prospect for Martin and then likely watch Martin walk next offseason while getting nothing for him?

It all depends on what PIT wants for Martin. We'd obviously have to shed some salary before a deal is made(or in the deal).

There is a fat chance Martin is traded by JR at the deadline. You need to maximize the asset to the fullest. Yep, you lose five million in cap space, but you need to acquire picks and prospects too. That is how asset management works to me. How about letting one of the kids gain a spot if he earns it?

This roster has a major hole it in right now.
- Oneonta Penguin

There is a fat chance Martin is traded by JR now.

Let's be realistic. I have been a dupes 1st line hater for a while but that is bc I have been a coach for over 10 yrs and my coaching strategy is to balance line. Dupes is a 3rd line guy. He did well on the 1st line and DB fell in love with him there. But he is a 3rd liner and he would balance the lines more as a 3rd liner.... factor in his age and his knee injury and he is not going to be the dupes that everyone wants him to be. You have to let other slide in there to work with sid. Ie bennett Hornqvist kapanen etc... key is young guys...

Saying he deserves a shot on the 1st line bc of his play 3 yrs ago is BS. .. As well as those two r the only ones sid wants to play with...

Also we have a lot of young guys that will give you more passion and hard work to get a starting job then guys like Downie and goc and scuds... look at every call up last year and how they played...so why not let some of the young D play... how the hell are they going to make the jump to pros without an opportunity? ?

If that is the case then just not have a minor team with prospects and only go after established players
- nh4442

I would have thought, you as a coach, would know that if there is chemistry between three players and they produce well together, they should stick together until the drop of production happens. You can't teach chemistry between people. It is built through time. It's not a given either. He has played well with Crosby since he was put on that line. It was his play three years ago; two years ago and even before his injury. This isn't just his play from three years ago.

no one wants that. they want to make physical safer and eliminate the garbage. neals knee to the head followed by thorntons play are prime examples. bountygate another, using football. new technologies in protective gear, and eliminating hits (i.e. head hits) that have been proven to cause long term damage. sports have to grow with new research and technologies.
- ChrisMS

I'm talking about running guys even a little late, sending messages, fighting, hitting. It's part of the game. If Downie has 1 or 2 questionable hits a year I'm OK with it. Obviously I don't want to see long term injuries but anyone of us would switch with them knowing that's possible. I'm done on it. I like the Downie signing.

Saying he deserves a shot on the 1st line bc of his play 3 yrs ago is BS. .. As well as those two r the only ones sid wants to play with...

- nh4442

Three years ago?!?

If the FO planned on demoting Dupuis to the third line, they wouldn't have gone out and signed two third line wings.

Unless you think Spaling or Downie belong in the top six?

Similar argument to what was going on with Niskanen at this time last year. Most wanted to trade him to free up space for a winger. Shero held onto him. Was that the right call? What is the value of one season of stellar hockey that helps the team win in terms of asset management?

And why don't the same arguments cut both ways?

If Martin is always hurt, why would some team give up a talented top 6 prospect for him?

If Martin is a FA next summer, and it's bad asset management to get nothing for him, why would another team give up a prospect for Martin and then likely watch Martin walk next offseason while getting nothing for him?
- hardnosed

No, it was the wrong call. We lost him for nothing this offseason, he didn't help us win the cup, and he took space, where one of our youngsters could have played and gotten experience.

There is a fat chance Martin is traded by JR now.
- hardnosed

Well, then I think he has made another mistake. He won't get jack poop for him. Maximize the asset as best you can.

It all depends on what PIT wants for Martin. We'd obviously have to shed some salary before a deal is made(or in the deal).
- Ersberg

What would the Kings be looking to deal??

Edit: How about a Martin for Williams swap

(i know, in my dreams)

What would the Kings be looking to deal??

Edit: How about a Martin for Williams swap

(i know, in my dreams)
- cap1681

Scuderi

It think old man Rutherford mixed up his words.. He said pens need top 9 help but it looks like bottom 9 is all he is signing... he'll make that bottom 6... we all botched about having a team with all 3rd 4th liners and most of you are happy with him building a team of 3rd and 4th liners because he got them cheap... I'm all for low cap low length contracts but wtf....

I just don't see his master plan here.... OK he got a top 6 guy when he traded a top 6 guy but cmon... is he really betting on kapanen making team to not go after an elite winger for sid or even geno bf who he puts up pts with everytime they play...

I'm sorry I just don't understand until there is another trade or something....

Sorry I don't look at the corsi as much and understand if this is the money ball team of hockey. Almost everything I have read from tiops and MolinariPG et all is saying JR really didn't help out the team... but yes I am very thankful he didn't bring any off the ufas back
- nh4442

It's only July 2, there's still three months to add a top six guy.