Yeah. I didn't want to poop on your trade proposal, but I thought Straka+3rd was pretty low for a legit goalie prospect
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't know, Markstrom's stock is falling.

Well, he was 7th on the team in scoring (4th in Pts/GP) as an AHL rookie. I suggest you read up more on our farm system if that's the case.
- jmatchett383

A lot of players score in the AHL and do not in the NHL. All I'm saying as one of our lesser known prospects and a pick for markstrom

Maybe they can find a way to have something like LTIR but a little different. Something like a Long Term Disability List. You can place a guy on there with a career ending injury. Has to go through all the LTIR protocal things and be medically not cleared. If placed on there then you get paid but the money doesn't count against the cap. Maybe you can only put so much money on this list and if over then have to use LTIR.
- J35Bacher

That would violate why the Cap is in place in the first place.

Grossmann traded!

In 2012.

It could be used for circumvention though. You can't tell a player how badly he's hurt. Especially, with head injuries. Whats to stop Hossa from retiring at 40 and saying his head hurts and he can't play?
- PhillySportsGuy

He would have to be medically approved to go on the other list. Pronger doesn't just say his head hurts. They do testing and doctors evaluate.

Maybe they can find a way to have something like LTIR but a little different. Something like a Long Term Disability List. You can place a guy on there with a career ending injury. Has to go through all the LTIR protocal things and be medically not cleared. If placed on there then you get paid but the money doesn't count against the cap. Maybe you can only put so much money on this list and if over then have to use LTIR.
- J35Bacher

I think the big problem to solve in these rare cases is how this would effect escrow to the players, as the money to the injured player isn't counting against the cap, but is money paid to the players. It's money outside the system so to speak. If it stays on the cap as it currently does, it stays in the system. This is an easier situation for the NHL to work with

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Free Agency Season Open, Lecavalier, Ott and More
- bmeltzer

All good points an out Ott. Right now I'm hoping for the best, while expecting the worst. I'm seriously deflated by the Hartnell deal. You're right though, we lost serious sandpaper in Hartnell. We also lost a front line player that I'd like to see be replaced but I'm doubting will be thr case. Ready or not, looks like Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Matt Read and Jake Voracek are going to have to be more consistent scorers.

I don't know, Markstrom's stock is falling.
- jmatchett383

Goalies take a while to develop. He had a decent year with Florida's farm team. I still think they'd want a better return for him though

A lot of players score in the AHL and do not in the NHL. All I'm saying as one of our lesser known prospects and a pick for markstrom
- funmaster18

Well, Eriksson, but yes. I'm not willing to move a roster player or one of our A-level prospects for a player who may never be an NHL player. Straka projects as a 3rd line tweener in a year or two. Basically, think Tye McGinn with less grit but more finesse.

I think the big problem to solve in these rare cases is how this would effect escrow to the players, as the money to the injured player isn't counting against the cap, but is money paid to the players. It's money outside the system so to speak. If it stays on the cap as it currently does, it stays in the system. This is an easier situation for the NHL to work with
- eayost

That's correct, that's what it's all about.

Goalies take a while to develop. He had a decent year with Florida's farm team. I still think they'd want a better return for him though
- PhillySportsGuy

He's had some real struggles at the NHL level, though. I'm not saying he's a bust, but he's had some hard times so far.

trade Lecav!
Sign Vanek!

VANEK OR BUST!!!
- MrBigglesworth

Maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way but Vanek strikes me as being the same player as Bobby Ryan.

All good points an out Ott. Right now I'm hoping for the best, while expecting the worst. I'm seriously deflated by the Hartnell deal. You're right though, we lost serious sandpaper in Hartnell. We also lost a front line player that I'd like to see be replaced but I'm doubting will be thr case. Ready or not, looks like Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Matt Read and Jake Voracek are going to have to be more consistent scorers.
- SuperSchennBros

Will you be ok with the Hartnell deal when the money gained in 3 years is able to help pay for the extensions of Couturier and B Schenn when/if they finally breakout? This is what Hextall is thinking about with that deal. Foresight. Which has maybe been lacking somewhat in the organization over the years.

Or he was tired of Hartnell's act. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes.

Will you be ok with the Hartnell deal when the money gained in 3 years is able to help pay for the extensions of Couturier and B Schenn when/if they finally breakout? This is what Hextall is thinking about with that deal. Foresight. Which has maybe been lacking somewhat in the organization over the years.

Or he was tired of Hartnell's act. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes.
- eayost

They'll need that $$ in 2 years.

Also, why are people always talking about how it's going to help in 3 years. Our franchise player is in the prime of his career now. Are we just throwing away the next 3 seasons so that we can have more money later on?

He would have to be medically approved to go on the other list. Pronger doesn't just say his head hurts. They do testing and doctors evaluate.
- J35Bacher

There are no definitive tests for concussions. We know next to nothing about concussions. Players go to various specialists and they all give different evaluations.

the rumors of Ryan Miller going to Van is ironic to me.

Luongo 2.0

Maybe they figure out not to give him a 10+ year contract.

He's had some real struggles at the NHL level, though. I'm not saying he's a bust, but he's had some hard times so far.
- jmatchett383

I agree. I just think he'd cost more than fringe prospects and mid round picks.

They'll need that $$ in 2 years.

Also, why are people always talking about how it's going to help in 3 years. Our franchise player is in the prime of his career now. Are we just throwing away the next 3 seasons so that we can have more money later on?
- jmatchett383

They can still win now but plan for increased player expenses in the future. I don't think Hartnell is that good of a player that we're "throwing away" seasons by moving him out

They'll need that $$ in 2 years.

Also, why are people always talking about how it's going to help in 3 years. Our franchise player is in the prime of his career now. Are we just throwing away the next 3 seasons so that we can have more money later on?
- jmatchett383

The marginal difference in production between Umberger and Hartnell is enough to give up on the next 3 seasons over?

There are no definitive tests for concussions. We know next to nothing about concussions. Players go to various specialists and they all give different evaluations.
- PhillySportsGuy

It seems more like a clinical definition then something that shows up on a test

head trauma + symptoms (dizziness/headache/nausea/fatigue, etc) = concussion

it doesn't show up on a cat scan

If Brayden Schenn breaks out playing left wing with Claude Giroux this season (the way Richards did in year 3), we're not going to worry about losing Scott Hartnell. At some point, these players acquired for the old core need to be given the reigns of the team. And if they succeed, they're gonna be paid

The marginal difference in production between Umberger and Hartnell is enough to give up on the next 3 seasons over?
- Tomahawk

Umberger has to bounce back from last year though, for this deal to make sense, at least to me.

I get moving on from Hartnell, just trading him for this year's Umberger is a poor return.

Hopefully he bounce back.

They'll need that $$ in 2 years.

Also, why are people always talking about how it's going to help in 3 years. Our franchise player is in the prime of his career now. Are we just throwing away the next 3 seasons so that we can have more money later on?
- jmatchett383

Yeah will help in a few years, but you are right I do want to " take a step back" in any way shape or form. They are a good team and with " proper" tweaks they can take another step forward.

spezza a star

If Brayden Schenn breaks out playing left wing with Claude Giroux this season (the way Richards did in year 3), we're not going to worry about losing Scott Hartnell. At some point, these players acquired for the old core need to be given the reigns of the team. And if they succeed, they're gonna be paid
- eayost

Funny you say that... I keep saying to anyone who will listen... Couts is going to have his break out year.. And if he does we will end up being serious contenders.