Bill, I was waiting to see if Hextall was going to put his stamp on this team. I kinda thought if he did it wouldn't just be a single move.....These guys are not Hextall "guys"....yes he was there but I am already getting the sense that Hexy and Homer view things different.
Homer was loyal and loved to make splashes and take chances.....Homer swung for the fences and as a fan I actually enjoyed the action. But he turned into the Dave Kingman of GMs....all or nothing deals....when you take that many swings there are going to be a fair share of misses. Now we see a new GM with a new vision and quite frankly it really was needed.....I also get the sense that Hexy is setting out to fix some of those misses.

I think it really boils down to what Hextall wants on his team. He obviously values versatility and skating as well as two way play.

Scott Hartnell is a good NHL player. But in Philly he was basically limited to a scoring line role. He wasn't able to slide up and down the line up or work on the PK effectively because he's not a good skater. He lacked discipline in his game, both in playing within a structure and in terms of taking penalties.

Still, he was 20-25 goals in the bank, a good effective pest and had good chemistry with Giroux.

Now, the Flyers do get some cap benefits-especially in term-but this wasn't primarily a salary dump. They identified Umberger as a guy that better fit the style they want to play.

I get the angst. I don't particularly like the trade myself. I don't hate it, though, I see it as a lateral move, more than anything.
- Jsaquella

Hextall himself called it a lateral move with flexibility in the future. I think he was changing the culture a bit and finding players that fit the Berube mold. That's what it came down to, for me. I think he knew he wanted to move Hartnell from day one and wanted to do it ahead of free agency and the draft.

I'm not sure how much input he had. Holmgren was making the decisions. I just think it's risky giving a guy 5 million for as many years as he did on such a small sample size on the team. I liked what I saw for a 4-5 d-man, but there were some comments (i'd have to find them) that I thought hinted at Hextall not liking the deal.
- funmaster18

I don't think homer signs him if Hextall had reservations. He wouldn't have said "well i don't care what you think" and done it anyways. Also the move for hextall to be gm was I'm sure already being talked about so I think he probably was probably ok with it.

I agree with that. Yesterday I think people just went off emotion. When you look at the deal closly and objectivly you can see his thinking. And I go back to LA. The commitment to team d and the system is what makes them so tough to play against. They might not score a ton but they always seem to play good d. Also all there guys seems to be able to do multiple things not just one skill set.
- J35Bacher

Definitely was raw emotion in here. In the end, I don't think it was as lopsided as some made it seem, though Columbus got the more dynamic player. I don't think he was a good fit with G and Voracek and wasn't sound defensively enough to move down the lineup and still be as effective.

Hextall himself called it a lateral move with flexibility in the future. I think he was changing the culture a bit and finding players that fit the Berube mold. That's what it came down to, for me. I think he knew he wanted to move Hartnell from day one and wanted to do it ahead of free agency and the draft.
- funmaster18

Ah, see...I missed that quote

Yeah, I figure you're right. Hartenll wasn't seen as a fit, so he's no longer a Flyer.

Hextall himself called it a lateral move with flexibility in the future. I think he was changing the culture a bit and finding players that fit the Berube mold. That's what it came down to, for me. I think he knew he wanted to move Hartnell from day one and wanted to do it ahead of free agency and the draft.
- funmaster18

Yeah. I think Hextall and Berube know what type of team they want to build. Next peice to move will be Vinny. Even the Bellemore signing the first things you hear about are "two-way" and "skating". Same things you read about Umberger.

I don't think homer signs him if Hextall had reservations. He wouldn't have said "well i don't care what you think" and done it anyways. Also the move for hextall to be gm was I'm sure already being talked about so I think he probably was probably ok with it.
- J35Bacher

The only scenario where I think he wouldn't have done it if Hextall had reservations is if Hextall's promotion to GM was already being discussed. I'm not sure how much it was being talked about leading up to a playoff run.

I think it really boils down to what Hextall wants on his team. He obviously values versatility and skating as well as two way play.

Scott Hartnell is a good NHL player. But in Philly he was basically limited to a scoring line role. He wasn't able to slide up and down the line up or work on the PK effectively because he's not a good skater. He lacked discipline in his game, both in playing within a structure and in terms of taking penalties.

Still, he was 20-25 goals in the bank, a good effective pest and had good chemistry with Giroux.

Now, the Flyers do get some cap benefits-especially in term-but this wasn't primarily a salary dump. They identified Umberger as a guy that better fit the style they want to play.

I get the angst. I don't particularly like the trade myself. I don't hate it, though, I see it as a lateral move, more than anything.
- Jsaquella

TBH, I'm honestly not worried about the deal. And I valued what Hartnell did well. But i thought about this even more last evening and i,just truly believe it's net neutral. If Umberger can move around the ice, i just think what he brings to the team offsets some of the goals and points Hartnell would provide. Better defensee, fewer penalties, more adherence to structure.

Not saying Umberger is a better player. But if he can still skate well enough -- and last i saw, he still moves well enough -- we should be fine as a team.

I agree with that. Yesterday I think people just went off emotion. When you look at the deal closly and objectivly you can see his thinking. And I go back to LA. The commitment to team d and the system is what makes them so tough to play against. They might not score a ton but they always seem to play good d. Also all there guys seems to be able to do multiple things not just one skill set.
- J35Bacher

I liked Hartnell....and there were times were I hated Hartnell....I just keep thinking if he already was showing signs of struggles at 32 what would he be like at 36 or 37 near the end of the deal.
Its also time to move the kids into those positions (1rst line, 1rst pp)...lets see what they have.

Definitely was raw emotion in here. In the end, I don't think it was as lopsided as some made it seem, though Columbus got the more dynamic player. I don't think he was a good fit with G and Voracek and wasn't sound defensively enough to move down the lineup and still be as effective.
- funmaster18

I didn't mind Hartnell. I am a rare fan as I don't really fall for players as I am more just a Flyers fan. But i will not miss the blind turn around and fire cross ice pass. I wouold get so mad at those.

Ah, see...I missed that quote

Yeah, I figure you're right. Hartenll wasn't seen as a fit, so he's no longer a Flyer.
- Jsaquella

Hey, at least Hexy's not bashful about getting things done. The first guy he gives the boot to is a fan favorite.

Ah, see...I missed that quote

Yeah, I figure you're right. Hartenll wasn't seen as a fit, so he's no longer a Flyer.
- Jsaquella

And though some talk about power forwards breaking down, this and that, I don't think that was part of the equation. A player fits now or he doesn't. I don't think you trade a guy because in 4 years he might not be a good player anymore. Hartnell was still pretty consistent compared to his career, so I don't think that was a big factor.

The only scenario where I think he wouldn't have done it if Hextall had reservations is if Hextall's promotion to GM was already being discussed. I'm not sure how much it was being talked about leading up to a playoff run.
- funmaster18

I have to go back and listen to the press conference but i thought they said it was started in Jan. I have to listen again.

I didn't mind Hartnell. I am a rare fan as I don't really fall for players as I am more just a Flyers fan. But i will not miss the blind turn around and fire cross ice pass. I wouold get so mad at those.
- J35Bacher

You had to take the good with the bad with Hartnell. He will be missed both for his play and his antics. He was fun to watch when he was on his game. He was frustrating as hell when he wasn't.

I have to go back and listen to the press conference but i thought they said it was started in Jan. I have to listen again.
- J35Bacher

If so, then there may have been more discussion/agreement between them than I thought.

And though some talk about power forwards breaking down, this and that, I don't think that was part of the equation. A player fits now or he doesn't. I don't think you trade a guy because in 4 years he might not be a good player anymore. Hartnell was still pretty consistent compared to his career, so I don't think that was a big factor.
- funmaster18

I thknk the future played some part. When the umberger deal is on the last year they will need to sign Couturier, Voracek, Schenn so I do think it played some part

Hey, at least Hexy's not bashful about getting things done. The first guy he gives the boot to is a fan favorite.
- tangent_man

Can't be scared to manage; sooner or later everybody gets fired. Might as well go down making the team what you wanted it to be and take your,chances

I don't think homer signs him if Hextall had reservations. He wouldn't have said "well i don't care what you think" and done it anyways. Also the move for hextall to be gm was I'm sure already being talked about so I think he probably was probably ok with it.
- J35Bacher

Remember, it was only a few months earlier that Holmgren signed Vinnie to his 5 year contract and Hextall is already looking to move LeCavalier ASAP. I wouldn't make to many assumptions at this point.

I have to go back and listen to the press conference but i thought they said it was started in Jan. I have to listen again.
- J35Bacher

I remember January being mentioned, but not sure if that was when Homer brought it up to Snider or Hextall (or both).

You had to take the good with the bad with Hartnell. He will be missed both for his play and his antics. He was fun to watch when he was on his game. He was frustrating as hell when he wasn't.
- funmaster18

He was just infuriating when he wasn't on though. Sometimes you wondered what the hell he was thinking when he would make a terrible pass and then slash the guy and take a dumb penalty to compoubnd things.

Friday, November 14th 2014: Hartnell scores his 7th goal of the season.

Remember, it was only a few months earlier that Holmgren signed Vinnie to his 5 year contract and Hextall is already looking to move LeCavalier ASAP. I wouldn't make to many assumptions at this point.
- Flyers_01

But the system was different when Vinny was signed. You have to factor that in. The direction changed. Vinny wanted to play in the run and gun style of Lavy. berube is structed d first with a commintment to puck supposrt

Can't be scared to manage; sooner or later everybody gets fired
- AllInForFlyers

True. He put his big ol' thumbprint on the team logo yesterday.

Is Schenn not the perfect #2 center to play behind Giroux?

Is the problem about finding a space for LeCavalier. The better teams make themselves strong down the middle. So, if the Flyers go with Giroux, Schenn, Couturier and LaCavalier it looks very good to me.
- spatso

Ideally I would rather have Couterier as the second line center and umberger as the 3rd line center. Schenn would be permanently moved to wing in that scenario.

He was just infuriating when he wasn't on though. Sometimes you wondered what the hell he was thinking when he would make a terrible pass and then slash the guy and take a dumb penalty to compoubnd things.
- J35Bacher

The problem is he'd stew over that play for the rest of the game, and he'd never get back on track.