- JAKEw1234

9/10, rock solid appropriateness; would laugh again

You don't change the mix with both returning. Having a lack of physical play is just as bad as having a lack of skating/passing ability. Need to find a balance. Make no mistake about it, and this is not the popular opinion. But if the Flyers move Grossmann in favor of a less physical better skating defenseman, they will miss those elements that Grossmann brings. The last 2 defenseman that the Flyers have added have been more mobile defenseman with better puck skills.
- MJL

If the blueline as constituted last year was viewed as part of the problem not getting out of the defensive zone, somehow it is going to have to be tweaked.

Lots of factors why a player is no longer fitting in with a team. I think statements that Umberger is a shot player are just assumptions.
- MJL

Agreed -- let's see the guy in a place where he is familiar and motivated.

I watched them some; not a ton, but some. I think he's got some legs left. The goals don't come easily for him, for what I saw, but he back checks and competed, from what I saw.

I think he get 15 g, 35 points, plays within the system. Then you take it year by year

its not always that simple though.

given the chance, right now.

would you take craig adams for VL?
- stayinthefnnet

Ugh, that's a tough one.

Actually, yeah I would, because Adams could probably be flipped for a a draft pick at the TDL

If the blueline as constituted last year was viewed as part of the problem not getting out of the defensive zone, somehow it is going to have to be tweaked.
- ravishingone

The flip side is, exchanging guys like Hartnell for more disciplined guys who will provide better puck support helps the existing defense.

Kind of a Catch-22. I don;t think Hextall's first choice is to stand pat on D

9/10, rock solid appropriateness; would laugh again
- Giroux_Is_God

What's Adams term and hit?
- AllInForFlyers

ah see youre already revealing the punch line haha. that was my whole point, you cant just look at the two players in a strictly "well one or the other vacuum".

for all his warts, VL is infinitely better than craig adams.

but, adams i believe has one year remaining at like 700-800k.

so given the choice, i guarantee there is at least one person on here who would ship VL off with a pretty bow in order to get the lesser player. i know i wouldnt move adams for VL. i realize my example is a tad more extreme than the exact one at hand, but my point is still the same. an evaluation based strictly on this one or that one fails to take in many relevant factors.

Ugh, that's a tough one.

Actually, yeah I would, because Adams could probably be flipped for a a draft pick at the TDL
- Jsaquella

i honestly doubt he could. he is literally the crypt keeper on skates. but in a years time, he will be gone. and for that reason, and that reason alone, i would not trade him for VL.

If the blueline as constituted last year was viewed as part of the problem not getting out of the defensive zone, somehow it is going to have to be tweaked.
- ravishingone

But you don't just make a move to make a move. Have to make the right move. In recent weeks I advocated the Flyers pursuing Anton Stralman. After reading some comments made, and thinking about it some more, I have reversed that position. In my opinion the Flyers are at the point where the next defenseman they acquire needs to have both the ability to handle the puck and skate well, along with having a solid physical game. Players like Fayne and Stralman don't bring enough in the physical department to offset what the Flyers would lose with Grossmann in my opinion. Despite what some think, there is still a need for what Grossmann brings in this League. I don't feel the Flyers can afford to swap that physical play, just to get better mobility.

i honestly doubt he could. he is literally the crypt keeper on skates. but in a years time, he will be gone. and for that reason, and that reason alone, i would not trade him for VL.
- stayinthefnnet

Hell at the very least, he can get shipped to the AHL and off the cap

The flip side is, exchanging guys like Hartnell for more disciplined guys who will provide better puck support helps the existing defense.

Kind of a Catch-22. I don;t think Hextall's first choice is to stand pat on D
- Jsaquella

If Umberger plays within the system and helps, say, Vinny at ES...it's a win.

I said earlier, there's many ways to skin this cat. Umberger doesn't have to get 50 points if he takes 25 fewer minors than Hartnell did and helps team defense at ES

ah see youre already revealing the punch line haha. that was my whole point, you cant just look at the two players in a strictly "well one or the other vacuum".

for all his warts, VL is infinitely better than craig adams.

but, adams i believe has one year remaining at like 700-800k.

so given the choice, i guarantee there is at least one person on here who would ship VL off with a pretty bow in order to get the lesser player. i know i wouldnt move adams for VL. i realize my example is a tad more extreme than the exact one at hand, but my point is still the same. an evaluation based strictly on this one or that one fails to take in many relevant factors.
- stayinthefnnet

ah see youre already revealing the punch line haha. that was my whole point, you cant just look at the two players in a strictly "well one or the other vacuum".

for all his warts, VL is infinitely better than craig adams.

but, adams i believe has one year remaining at like 700-800k.

so given the choice, i guarantee there is at least one person on here who would ship VL off with a pretty bow in order to get the lesser player. i know i wouldnt move adams for VL. i realize my example is a tad more extreme than the exact one at hand, but my point is still the same. an evaluation based strictly on this one or that one fails to take in many relevant factors.
- stayinthefnnet

I hear you, brother -- there's always two sides when players get moved

But you don't just make a move to make a move. Have to make the right move. In recent weeks I advocated the Flyers pursuing Anton Stralman. After reading some comments made, and thinking about it some more, I have reversed that position. In my opinion the Flyers are at the point where the next defenseman they acquire needs to have both the ability to handle the puck and skate well, along with having a solid physical game. Players like Fayne and Stralman don't bring enough in the physical department to offset what the Flyers would lose with Grossmann in my opinion. Despite what some think, there is still a need for what Grossmann brings in this League. I don't feel the Flyers can afford to swap that physical play, just to get better mobility.
- MJL

Stop, I'm not condoning let's make a move to make a move theory. As it stands right now, the returning top 6 d-men are all back right now. If the general consensus, it wasn't the right mix at the end of game 7 against the Rangers, that perception hasn't changed now.

It's simple, the only guy right now who is guaranteed a spot in the top 6 opening night is Kimmo. I don't think that can be disputed.

- Giroux_Is_God

dear god

But you don't just make a move to make a move. Have to make the right move. In recent weeks I advocated the Flyers pursuing Anton Stralman. After reading some comments made, and thinking about it some more, I have reversed that position. In my opinion the Flyers are at the point where the next defenseman they acquire needs to have both the ability to handle the puck and skate well, along with having a solid physical game. Players like Fayne and Stralman don't bring enough in the physical department to offset what the Flyers would lose with Grossmann in my opinion. Despite what some think, there is still a need for what Grossmann brings in this League. I don't feel the Flyers can afford to swap that physical play, just to get better mobility.
- MJL

Who would you target for defense?

With Hexy mentioning he wanted to get quicker up front, gotta believe the same applies to the blueline. L. Schenn and Grossmann probably shouldn't be feeling very comfortable right now.
- ravishingone

i'm telling you trade grossman for mat irwin or braun

Stop, I'm not condoning let's make a move to make a move theory. As it stands right now, the returning top 6 d-men are all back right now. If the general consensus, it wasn't the right mix at the end of game 7 against the Rangers, that perception hasn't changed now.

It's simple, the only guy right now who is guaranteed a spot in the top 6 opening night is Kimmo. I don't think that can be disputed.
- ravishingone

I think Coburn is at very little risk

If Umberger plays within the system and helps, say, Vinny at ES...it's a win.

I said earlier, there's many ways to skin this cat. Umberger doesn't have to get 50 points if he takes 25 fewer minors than Hartnell did and helps team defense at ES
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers have essentially tweaked the mix at Forward. They gave up a better offensive player and goal scorer, for a forward that skates better and has a better all around game. And takes less penalties and is more versatile. How that translates on the ice remains to be seen. And if it makes the Flyers a better team. One thing is the Flyers are a better team as far as hockey sense is concerned after the trade. And it means one of two other things in my view. That B Schenn is going to be elevated to the top line, or the Flyers are going to add another Winger somehow. My guess would be the latter.

Flexibility in three years from now? Will Hextall be GM in three years from now?
- SuperSchennBros

Except these facts.

Flyers want two way players.
Flyers want future cap flexibility (to be able to retain young guns).
Hartnell was done on the first line and had zero value on lines 3/4.
Several clubs contacted Flyers about Hartnell.

Not fact, Flyers took the best deal they could get from teams Hartnell agreed to waive NMC after being contacted by several clubs.

A no brainer deal IMO

that is a gross oversimplification of the totality of the issue.
- stayinthefnnet

oh really do go into detail

dear god
- stayinthefnnet

fight me. fight me right now

The Flyers have essentially tweaked the mix at Forward. They gave up a better offensive player and goal scorer, for a forward that skates better and has a better all around game. And takes less penalties and is more versatile. How that translates on the ice remains to be seen. And if it makes the Flyers a better team. One thing is the Flyers are a better team as far as hockey sense is concerned after the trade. And it means one of two other things in my view. That B Schenn is going to be elevated to the top line, or the Flyers are going to add another Winger somehow. My guess would be the latter.
- MJL

Agreed; and I do think they sniff around for a goal-scorer. Don't know if they find one, or if we even know they are, but I have a feeling they sniff around

hartnell 52 points playing with giroux

umberger 34 points playing with a bunch of no namers

Agreed; and I do think they sniff around for a goal-scorer. Don't know if they find one, or if we even know they are, but I have a feeling they sniff around
- AllInForFlyers

vanek baby