I understand the point, but the Flyers don't need to be a better Hockey team today on 6/23. They need to be a better Hockey team in October when they start playing. I think there will be more moves, and we need to see the team that takes the ice.
- MJL

I understand that but how does this trade make them more flexible to create a better product by opening night? This is such a head scratcher to me.

Than you are stuck with a quality 20 goal scorer showing no signs of aging. Damn. Your right. That sucks so much.
- FlyersSteve118

No signs of aging? I really would disagree with that. And history says otherwise about power forwards with as much wear and tear as someone like Hartnell, taking all that abuse in front of the net. He's not a finesse guy who can skate like the wind until he's 40. Its not like he's been injury free either.

IMO, He wasn't going to be bought out and you assume people were knocking down the door to trade high draft picks for Hartnell's contract.
- jstross

I assumed nothing. I would not trade any player in a bad deal. This is a bad deal.

I think no matter what stage of the offseason it was, there would have only been a couple of teams at most who would have had ANY interest in taking on that contract without the FLyers keeping some of the cap hit. They pulled the trigger while they had a taker. What is it about him that you're so upset about? He had 21 goals and 50 points playing with 1 elite player, 1 very good player, and 1st power play unit time. What is so irreplacible.
- FlyerAdam30

He was replaceable if we could have traded him away without filling his cap space with a useless player and used it to sign a solid UFA LW like Moulson or Jokinen.

a solid two way 20 goal scorer is not negative value.
- jstross

It is when he makes the same as the 30 goal scoring power forward you just traded for him!!!

No signs of aging? I really would disagree with that. And history says otherwise about power forwards with as much wear and tear as someone like Hartnell, taking all that abuse in front of the net. He's not a finesse guy who can skate like the wind until he's 40. Its not like he's been injury free either.
- FlyerAdam30

Potential of ware and tear for a guy that is broken. RJ is seriously injured. Vinny-esque question marks.

How many teams do you think we're interested in RJ? Because you know he as on the market to every single team. How many do you think?
- coffee junkie

It doesn't matter how many teams were interested in him. It only matters that we were interested in him. Different teams have different needs, and he just isn't the kind of big name player that a bunch of different teams come breaking down the door to get. He is a fit on our team though, and he's another Swiss army knife-type like Read and Raffl are and hopefully Bellemare will be. As of now the makeup of our forward corp is very strong down the middle, and very versatile down the wings. That's definitely not a bad thing.

I assumed nothing. I would not trade any player in a bad deal. This is a bad deal.
- coffee junkie

So you sit on Hartnell for 5 years. Yuck.

No signs of aging? I really would disagree with that. And history says otherwise about power forwards with as much wear and tear as someone like Hartnell, taking all that abuse in front of the net. He's not a finesse guy who can skate like the wind until he's 40. Its not like he's been injury free either.
- FlyerAdam30

His signs of aging are that history says he will age? Im confused.

His signs of aging are that history says he will age? Im confused.
- FlyersSteve118

Historically, everyone ages.

Now you COULD just conclude the comparison at Hartnell’s 52 points to Umberger’s 34 and walk away knowing you had a pretty solid victory. But then you would miss out on the chance to gloat about the fact that Hartnell is one of the best possession players on Philly (+6.2% Corsi Rel) and Umberger is one of the worst for Columbus (-4.5% Corsi Rel). Umberger, as signaled by what was his impending buyout, is an anchor in the worst sense of the word.

As an Oiler fan I’m just glad we dodged a bullet.
- coffee junkie

Comparing the Corsi of a guy who played most of the season with Giroux and Voracek with the Corsi of a guy who was on the BJ's checking line is terrible analysis.

His signs of aging are that history says he will age? Im confused.
- FlyersSteve118

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Hartnell can still contribute niw, but the history of the NHL says that every year forward is ever more risky, at his age, and Hartnell at 35/36/37 is gonna be really, really interesting

Historically, everyone ages.
- aflyerpower8

Historically, everyone ages.
- aflyerpower8

I'm gonna need you to cite some sources on that one.

He was replaceable if we could have traded him away without filling his cap space with a useless player and used it to sign a solid UFA LW like Moulson or Jokinen.
- FlyersSteve118

I agree that would have been the ideal perfect scenario, but they weren't going to find a team to take on that contract without giving up another bad contract. We just have different views on the player. You see Hartnell as still a really solid player teams value and want and would give up a draft pick just to acquire. I see a decent player, who maybe has 2 years of 20 goal hockey in him, has a terrible contract, and was borderline unmoveable. I'm not THRILLED with the deal, I just see it as a wash for the most part. RJ isn't 40 years old. He's only 32 and its not out of the realm a change of scenery could have him bounce back to a 20/50pt guy

Comparing the Corsi of a guy who played most of the season with Giroux and Voracek with the Corsi of a guy who was on the BJ's checking line is terrible analysis.
- Feanor

Yet another misuse of stats

So you sit on Hartnell for 5 years. Yuck.
- jstross

So you take on a player with worse numbers and performance cause you only have to sit on him for 3 years? At the same salary?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Hartnell can still contribute niw, but the history of the NHL says that every year forward is ever more risky, at his age, and Hartnell at 35/36/37 is gonna be really, really interesting
- AllInForFlyers

So your saying no power forward has ever made it to age 37 and kept a 20 goal pace up?

Comparing the Corsi of a guy who played most of the season with Giroux and Voracek with the Corsi of a guy who was on the BJ's checking line is terrible analysis.
- Feanor

Agreed, though ranking amongst there teammates is a bit better. I do not adhere to this article, it was an example of how other teams fans view this deal. It is a very common theme that Philly made a bad trade.

The only thing that matters. Is we are rid of hartnell and/or umberger in 3 years. Columbus isnt now. That trade just proved what a poor signing it was on holmgrens part


It's all about undoing holmgrens mess

Art Ross Akeson is one step closer to being on the opening night roster in October.

His signs of aging are that history says he will age? Im confused.
- FlyersSteve118

I said AND history shows. All I have to do is watch him play. I see a player who has slown down, dissappears for games and games, doesnt show the same forechecking tanacity he did 2-3 years ago. Has little injuries here and there. AND history shows....etc.

Clearly you think he's still fantasic so were just not going to agree and thats fine.

I agree that would have been the ideal perfect scenario, but they weren't going to find a team to take on that contract without giving up another bad contract. We just have different views on the player. You see Hartnell as still a really solid player teams value and want and would give up a draft pick just to acquire. I see a decent player, who maybe has 2 years of 20 goal hockey in him, has a terrible contract, and was borderline unmoveable. I'm not THRILLED with the deal, I just see it as a wash for the most part. RJ isn't 40 years old. He's only 32 and its not out of the realm a change of scenery could have him bounce back to a 20/50pt guy
- FlyerAdam30

Sweat baby Jazus, they are the Same age even!

In 3 years, Hartnell's contract may not even look that bad. Look at what guys like Clarkson got last season.

I would understand the trade a lot more if Umberger had a year left on his deal instead of 3.

It's easy to say "Lets just move someone up to LW and have him play with G. Anyone can be productive." Thats simply not the case. WE KNOW that Hartnell-G-Voracek work and make up a strong top line. Hartnell, also, made a strong second line with Schenn and Simmonds.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's June 23rd. NHL teams normally don't finalize the roster for the upcoming Season by this time. Hell, technically it's not even the off season yet.