That really, really hinges one what else they do in that span.
- BulliesPhan87

That's why I said, "This trade." Right now, are they a better team than they were yesterday?

Serious question: Do you think this trade, on its own, translates to a better team for the next 3 years?
- jmatchett383

no.

That's why I said, "This trade." Right now, are they a better team than they were yesterday?
- jmatchett383

better is debatable, more flexible with our line up of who plays where. yes

What was he saying about Umberger?
- JAKEw1234

Originally Posted by healthyscratch
No real defining piece to this decisions... Wanted to get quicker... Versatility, better winger than center two way player, kills penalties... Cap flexibility down the road... Hard to say where he will play, option to play with G, other guys have a chance, he is an option with others up to players and coach... Hard deal to make, been a great flyer, but best for franchise... Talked to agent, agent talks to player for NTC... Hard one for Scott, was a shock approached to be moved...

I like our defense... Are we missing a stud, of course, don't fall off Christmas trees, have the young kids coming, kimmo buys us some time... Never pencil guys(kids)in, if they prove it in training camp that's another thing... Hate to see a kid here playing 10 minutes versus full time in Allentown... Anticipate Vinny being on the flyers, hard to say though... Continue to build thru draft... Defense coming, Laughton leier coming, keep adding young players and keeping draft picks.

Serious question: Do you think this trade, on its own, translates to a better team for the next 3 years?
- jmatchett383

its hard to look at roster moves entirely in a vacuum like that though.

translation

we weren't ready to throw in a 2nd round pick + Vinnie for a 7th rounder coming back
- Marc D

Pretty much.

Vinny bouncing back is the best thing that could happen to the Flyers both on the ice and off.

With the amount of selfish, mindless penalties he was taking he should have been sat a few game imo. I think he was demoted off the first line for lack of production.
- PLindbergh31

Sat for who, though? The choices that Chief had were Rosehill, McGinn, Newbury, VDV... is it any wonder that he pounced on the chance to put a real player in, when Homer finally brought Akeson up?

Serious question: Do you think this trade, on its own, translates to a better team for the next 3 years?
- jmatchett383

By itself, probably. It helps shift us further to a two-way focus, and eliminates a lot of unnecessary penalties. It also adds a bit more versatility cause RJ can switch from wing to center. We lose some goal scoring, but that tends to happen when more focus is given to defense.

better is debatable, more flexible with our line up of who plays where. yes
- arichardson22

Okay. I'll define better as "Able to win more."

Scott Hartnell.

Today we took away from the top line. We took from a pretty consistent Power Play. We took from the offsense. We took away from the team toughness. Hartnell is a meathead but we took away a need for a guy who I feel stop playing well the moment we traded him away years ago. Umburger had that amazing playoff run, got dealt and that was it.


Now looking at the positives, Umburger might look good on the wing with Couturier and Read. He might even be a solid checking center on the third line so Couturier could move up into the top six but Hartnell is a huge hole that everyone will be expecting to replace with a splash.

That really, really hinges one what else they do in that span.
- BulliesPhan87

Why can't this transaction be viewed independently? It's not like they can use cap savings from this transaction to upgrade the team. It's a fairly simple question, are the Flyers a better hockey team than they were this morning?

Serious question: Do you think this trade, on its own, translates to a better team for the next 3 years?
- jmatchett383

We won't know until the offseason and draft are done. Does it make the team more balanced? I would think so as Umberger can do more. Do they lose some goal scoring? Yes. But i think we need to quit looking at this as just Hartnell for Umberger. Hartnell thrived in the offensive systems of Lavy. The system and team are chainging. More Skating, defensive responsibility, and being versatile. I wouldn't use those three words to describe hartnell at all.

Maybe they don't score more goals but I think you will see a better team defense. Which take a look at LA. The commitment from the players to the system is something we compliment them for all the time. But I think more is to come so we just have to wait and see.

That's why I said, "This trade." Right now, are they a better team than they were yesterday?
- jmatchett383

I don't know, honestly.

Why can't this transaction be viewed independently? It's not like they can use cap savings from this transaction to upgrade the team. It's a fairly simple question, are the Flyers a better hockey team than they were this morning?
- PLindbergh31

Yup. Umberger can play anywhere from top line center to top pairing defenseman.

Edit: He solves our backup goalie problem too.

Sat for who, though? The choices that Chief had were Rosehill, McGinn, Newbury, VDV... is it any wonder that he pounced on the chance to put a real player in, when Homer finally brought Akeson up?


- Tomahawk

Good point. The Cupboard was completely barren. Akeson accounted for himself pretty well in the playoffs, makes you scratch your head why he wasn't called up during the season.

...but Hartnell is a huge hole that everyone will be expecting to replace with a splash.
- SuperSchennBros

Did Wayne Simmonds get traded, too?

Okay. I'll define better as "Able to win more."
- jmatchett383

what if this trade means the difference of being able to retain simmonds, or player X in 3 years time, that would have otherwise been a goner due to having hartnells on the books?

That's why I said, "This trade." Right now, are they a better team than they were yesterday?
- jmatchett383

In my opinion, no

what if this trade means the difference of being able to retain simmonds, or player X in 3 years time, that would have otherwise been a goner due to having hartnells on the books?
- stayinthefnnet

Today is the only thing that matters... gtfo with your advanced planning and forward thinking.

Did Wayne Simmonds get traded, too?
- Tomahawk

No, we're trading him for Volchenkov and a 6th tomorrow. Gotta get value while he still has some.

Yup. Umberger can play anywhere from top line center to top pairing defenseman.

Edit: He solves our backup goalie problem too.
- PhillySportsGuy

Embiid will save us! A crippled pipe cleaner is on the way to town!

Why can't this transaction be viewed independently? It's not like they can use cap savings from this transaction to upgrade the team. It's a fairly simple question, are the Flyers a better hockey team than they were this morning?
- PLindbergh31

Because he asked about in three years. That implies that part of the value in this trade is the reduced term. How they handle that reduced commitment determines whether that was worth pursuing.

Given what we know about Umberger (similar goal totals, and injuries in the playoffs), it's hard to judge how it affects the lineup from an immediate hockey perspective. It could go really well, or really poorly.

No.

At this point, we're scraping for things like "this sends a message!" and trying to bullpoop our way into believing this was a good return.

I'm fine with trading Hartnell. I just don't like the return.
- johndewar

Bingo...

The only people who are truly happy with the move are those who had something against Hartnell..

The return is pretty bad.

what if this trade means the difference of being able to retain simmonds, or player X in 3 years time, that would have otherwise been a goner due to having hartnells on the books?
- stayinthefnnet

So you want me to speculate on the salary cap 3 years from now?