Please look at his PPG vs. his EVG. A majority of his goals came with him camping the side of the net and blasting a one timer. He's completely one dimensional which is why that top line on Washington will never be threatening. He was not at all valuable to his team because everytime he scored, the other team would score against him and it would be a wash. The +/- is a difficult stat to read, but when you go -30, then something's obviously wrong.
- drummer829

I'll reiterate: to negate 51 goals, you would have to be on the ice for around 200. One dimensional doesn't matter when your one dimension is the best in the world.

Also, who cares - 5v5, pp, whatever. A goal is a goal. If scoring on the PP was so easy as to completely ignore it, then OV wouldn't be special and 51 goal seasons would be common.,

If you could just delete every reference in this thread to +/- it would actually be an interesting discussion.

Crosby i'll give you, maybe even Stamkos, but to pick Toews or Giroux ahead of OV is insanity. I guess 51 goals, even if they're harder to score now than ever (so like a prorated 70-80) just aren't what they used to be. Oh, the irony.
- James_Tanner

I would take all those guys over Ovi. Not taking them would be the insane thing. All four of those guys make players on their lines better as well as make the team better. All of them can play both ends of the ice. Ovi can score goals....he is far from a leader.

If you could just delete every reference in this thread to +/- it would actually be an interesting discussion.
- James_Tanner

You say this because you have no argument to help explain Ovi's horrific (-35) rating. If he had been a (+35) you would be singing a different tune. I just don't understand how someone so right about Lindros can be sooooo out there when it comes to Ovechkin. Mind blowing really.

I signed up just to post this. AO for Hart? Not a Goddamn chance! Maybe the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site, and that's saying a lot. He had the worst 50 goal season of all time. 51 goals, 79 points, -35?? Hart trophy? Honestly? Stop writing hockey Articles. He had the worst +/- on the team. There is at least one player on every team, in the entire NHL, including the Washington Capitals that deserves the Hart trophy more.

I signed up just to post this. AO for Hart? Not a Goddamn chance! Maybe the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site, and that's saying a lot. He had the worst 50 goal season of all time. 51 goals, 79 points, -35?? Hart trophy? Honestly? Stop writing hockey Articles. He had the worst +/- on the team. There is at least one player on every team, in the entire NHL, including the Washington Capitals that deserves the Hart trophy more.
- stevewalsh2323

Well said.

If this is NHL 15 on the fantasy draft mode, I'm drafting at least a dozen players before OV.

If I'm a general manager in the real world, I'm drafting at least a dozen players before OV.

http://www.sportspickle.c...-was-disconnected-on-xbox


Your argument is invalid

http://www.sportspickle.com/2013/05/alexander-ovechkins-controller-was-disconnected-on-xbox


Your argument is invalid
- stevewalsh2323

Funny! But it was an opinion, not an argument. Your video does sum up quite a bit of my opinion though.

http://www.sportspickle.com/2013/05/alexander-ovechkins-controller-was-disconnected-on-xbox


Your argument is invalid
- stevewalsh2323

too funny. That's Ovi without the puck

No one is saying he is better than those guys.

What I said was that if he never had the injury problems, he would be in that conversation. And it's true,he would be. Sadly he was injured, but for four years he was one of the five best players of all time and to ignore that and not even put him in the hall of fame is a joke.

The fact that he wasn't a first ballot HOF member with 100% of the vote just shows that there is too much politics and crap like that involved with the selection process.
- James_Tanner

It's because Lindros was overrated

I love Bure, but putting him in the same class as Lindros is like trying to tell me that Selanne is as good as Lemieux.
- James_Tanner

Bure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindros

Selanne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindros

You know what is almost as bad as saying a guy can't win the MVP because his team didn't make the playoffs? Using championships to rank players greatness.

Its absurd for so many reasons. All those guys had long careers and are amazing hockey players. Not even Peter Forseberg came close to being as dominant as Lindros. He is still the closest thing we have ever seen to another Gretzky or Lemieux.
- James_Tanner

I would say Sidney Crosby is the closest thing we have seen to another Gretzky or Lemieux.

Crosby i'll give you, maybe even Stamkos, but to pick Toews or Giroux ahead of OV is insanity. I guess 51 goals, even if they're harder to score now than ever (so like a prorated 70-80) just aren't what they used to be. Oh, the irony.
- James_Tanner

I'd take Toews over Ovi every day of the week, it's not even close. Toews is definitely in the conversation with Crosby for best player in the league. Ovi is in the second tier of star players.

I would say Sidney Crosby is the closest thing we have seen to another Gretzky or Lemieux.
- Reveen

Completely Agree!

Bure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindros

Selanne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindros
- Reveen

Again, completely agree!

You might as well said "You think trees produce Oxygen? lolololol"

Because you clearly didn't see him play in the NHL between 1993-97. He was only like the third highest PPG player of all time during that period and he did it during one of the lowest scoring eras in NHL history.
- James_Tanner

If you want to take 3 year snippets of careers there are DOZENS of guys who destroy his best three year output. 282 points over 3 season...hahaha Mario put up 160 pts in 60 games and 291 pts over the 91/92 and 92/93 seasons, and that's only playing 124 games!!

Why?

Leadership shows up on the ice. Guys like Toews, Kopitar, Brown, Getzlaf... these are players that we can tell are leaders based on their play. The points, in the end, barely matter and barely factor into it.

Watching a player backcheck, forecheck, give his all night in night out (whether the results are there, or not) is something we can visually take a queue from. Anyone who has played sports, at any level, knows you look to guys to lead by example.

Do I really need to bring up the "controller unplugged" GIFs of OV's from recent years? They aren't just funny... that is how OV plays the two-way game: deer in the headlights.

Now, before you say "Well, that's not what he's the for..." neither is Steven Stamkos. No one will confuse him with Toews with pure two-way know-how, but this is a guy who at least TRIES in his own zone. He plays hard, even if he isn't all that polished at it yet. Hell, be broke his leg trying to backcheck as hard and fast as possible.

OV for the Hart? Really?
- OzBolts

Even Crosby lost connection on his controller. Even Toews had 1 against LA. OV is the best scorer for the past decade and 2nd Best Scorer right now only behind Stamkos.

If you could just delete every reference in this thread to +/- it would actually be an interesting discussion.
- James_Tanner

But his is so bad that you can't. Maybe if he was a -10 then I could understand because the caps themselves weren't too strong this year, but a -35 is a whole different story. It's not even like they were a terrible team. They were in the playoff hunt until the very end. I would put money on the fact that if ovi were somewhat defensively responsible, they could have made the playoffs

I would say Sidney Crosby is the closest thing we have seen to another Gretzky or Lemieux.
- Reveen

I'd say Malkin is probably the closest thing we've seen to Lemieux, while I guess Sid is the closest to Gretzky. Also in regards to the actual blog, Ovechkin is the best player in the league? I'd take Stamkos, Malkin, Crosby, Kopitar, Giroux and Toews over him any day of the week and twice on Sundays. If offense were the only thing that mattered in MVP voting, then sure Ovi can be in the MVP discussion, but it isn't. You need to be able to play something called DEFENCE in order to be a true MVP candidate. Malkin may not be a defensive stalwart like Toews or Kopitar but he isn't horrendously bad like Ovi.

I gotta say, I never really expected people to agree with me, but I never expected people to just say "minus 35" over and over.

Plus minus does not factor in PP goals.

Plus minus credits you with one + if you score, an action that is mostly you. Yet, if you are scored against, you get a minus one, even though you are 1 of 6 players on the ice.

You can get an assist, do a line change and not get a plus. You can get a minus when you step on the ice fifty feet from the puck.


To say scoring a goal is the same as being on the ice when one goes in is ridiculous. Goalies let in bad goals, other players make bad decisions.

Of course, there's leeway here: every goal you score isn't just because of you, and you can easily be at fault for a goal, but despite that, these things don't balance out.

Even if you wanted to be generous, you could say scoring one goal was equal to a minus 3, and in that scenerio, Ovechkin still needs to be -153 before his 51 goals are negated.

The guy scored 8 more goals than anyone else.

He scored nearly a quarter of his team's total goals.

He scored these goals at a time when goal scoring is down and no one scores 50 and barely anyone scores 40.

Even if you won't conceed he should be given the Hart, you guys are underrating him to a ridiculous level.

I would also say that if you got 30 goals and were the best defensive forward in the NHL, a guy who scored 50 - no matter how he did it - is more valuable to his team.

Washington has one of the worst defense groups in the NHL. They do not really have a goalie. Their second line presents almost zero threat. If you put Crosby on Washington this last season, I would bet you they still miss the playoffs and Crosby is a minus player.

Also, and sorry for the long post, but to say Pavel Bure is better than Eric Lindros is the same thing as saying "I never saw either one play."

Ovi coasts so hard now a days it is unbelievable. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the MVP race. His plus minus alone eliminates him from being considered.
- Mahewman

Thissssssssssssss!!!

I want some of what your drinking! The best player in the NHL finishes with a -35. Ovi is one of the most selfish players in recent memory. This is most laughable statement, 'the best player wasn't even nominated' I've ever read. This article was joke!


- bigdaddywaite

Exactly.

I gotta say, I never really expected people to agree with me, but I never expected people to just say "minus 35" over and over.

Plus minus does not factor in PP goals.

Plus minus credits you with one + if you score, an action that is mostly you. Yet, if you are scored against, you get a minus one, even though you are 1 of 6 players on the ice.

You can get an assist, do a line change and not get a plus. You can get a minus when you step on the ice fifty feet from the puck.


To say scoring a goal is the same as being on the ice when one goes in is ridiculous. Goalies let in bad goals, other players make bad decisions.

Of course, there's leeway here: every goal you score isn't just because of you, and you can easily be at fault for a goal, but despite that, these things don't balance out.

Even if you wanted to be generous, you could say scoring one goal was equal to a minus 3, and in that scenerio, Ovechkin still needs to be -153 before his 51 goals are negated.

The guy scored 8 more goals than anyone else.

He scored nearly a quarter of his team's total goals.

He scored these goals at a time when goal scoring is down and no one scores 50 and barely anyone scores 40.

Even if you won't conceed he should be given the Hart, you guys are underrating him to a ridiculous level.

I would also say that if you got 30 goals and were the best defensive forward in the NHL, a guy who scored 50 - no matter how he did it - is more valuable to his team.

Washington has one of the worst defense groups in the NHL. They do not really have a goalie. Their second line presents almost zero threat. If you put Crosby on Washington this last season, I would bet you they still miss the playoffs and Crosby is a minus player.

Also, and sorry for the long post, but to say Pavel Bure is better than Eric Lindros is the same thing as saying "I never saw either one play."
- James_Tanner

Seriously you have to stop. That is the dumbest comment to try and support your own point that I have ever heard. Why would plus/minus include pp goals? You have a man advantage, you should score.

However, I think you are not understanding what I am saying which is that while Ov might not go up against other teams top lines, he is playing against everyones best defensive players. That may not rank as toughest competition if that is decided by point totals of the players hes up against.

You get what I mean?
- James_Tanner

Sometimes yes, but not by design. Washington attempted to get Ovechkin away from those players (rightfully so) and did so successfully, thus the lower QoC.

Pittsburgh/Bylsma actively chose to intentionally place Crosby against the oppositions best because the Pens bottom 6 was a dumpster fire and couldn't handle it. Most coaches try to free up their point producers, the Penguins were forced to do the opposite last year.

Crosby owned the role and added 104 points while doing so.

If the Penguins ever tried to free Sid up he might get 130 points.

I suppose while I'm here I'll add that it should be Sid's 2nd Hart in the last 2 years. Sid and Ovie both missed a month of the regular season last year, at least one of them had a valid excuse.

James Tanner: Thoughts From Around the NHL: OV for Hart, Kopitar Underrated, Lindros HOF
Just some thoughts from around the league
- James_Tanner

not best player.

most valuable--like said team would be terrible without him.
they didnt do much with him. so that one is dead.

.
he's not NEAR the best player either.


im sure its just a troll blog anyway. no way, anyone who professes to know anything about hockey can think ovechkin was the leagues best player this year.
laughable suggestion really. Saying toews is better than ov is insanity??? U need to take a closer look at the game of hockey...

Sorry, this article is clearly a joke. Ovechkin can score all the goals he wants.+/- is not be all end all stat, but when you manage to score 51 goals, and are still a -35--you're automatically not the MVP. There are numerous players who would win MVP before Ovi. -35 WITH 51 GOALS. It's seriously laughable how bad you have to be 5v5 to make that stat possible.