The Flyers are really only one dman away from being a top contender.

Too bad that dman is Bobby Orr


- BiggE

Really? Scotch for breakfast?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Murphy, Stralman and Defense Roster Building
- bmeltzer

Bill, as Harry Kalas would say, you are the man!

Great read.

Everyone wants the monster but where do you want to find him? You can draft and hope. You can try to get Weber, which was tried. You still need to build a d. Can't just throw dreck out there because you don't want to pay market for a dmen that isn't perfect. Only a couple teams have that guy and it doesn't mean your better just because you have him. It definately helps but did NSH make the playoffs with their monster on d this year?
- J35Bacher

You're right that those stud defensemen don't grow on trees.

Ideally, you draft and develop those guys. There are no guarentees.

However, when you don't draft and develop those guys and you can't sign them or trade for them, it's best to make defense a team effort and to have a good mix on your blueline. The guys on the blueline for the Flyers are perfectly fine, individually in a vacuum, but together, they don't work real well.

Short of getting a Shea Weber or having Drew Doughty somehow fall into your lap, if you can improve by cheaply changing the mix of your blueline, you should do so.

The Flyers are really only one dman away from being a top contender.

Too bad that dman is Bobby Orr


- BiggE

I'd take a 66 year old Orr, over MacDonald.

Everyone wants the monster but where do you want to find him? You can draft and hope. You can try to get Weber, which was tried. You still need to build a d. Can't just throw dreck out there because you don't want to pay market for a dmen that isn't perfect. Only a couple teams have that guy and it doesn't mean your better just because you have him. It definately helps but did NSH make the playoffs with their monster on d this year?
- J35Bacher

We were sans Pekka most of this year, and we missed the playoffs by only 3 pts. Weber is the only reason we were remotely close.

Really? Scotch for breakfast?
- tangent_man

Goes well over cheerios!

I'd take a 66 year old Orr, over MacDonald.
- PLindbergh31

Everyone wants the monster but where do you want to find him? You can draft and hope. You can try to get Weber, which was tried. You still need to build a d. Can't just throw dreck out there because you don't want to pay market for a dmen that isn't perfect. Only a couple teams have that guy and it doesn't mean your better just because you have him. It definately helps but did NSH make the playoffs with their monster on d this year?
- J35Bacher

Where did the Bruins, Blues, Hawks, Kings, Preds, Yotes, Wild, etc. find them? They all got lucky I guess.

Correct.

I think I would be ok with the risk. He is only 23.
- J35Bacher

Justin Williams was injury prone when we traded him to Carolina, now he has 3 cups and a Conn Smythe

Short of getting a Shea Weber or having Drew Doughty somehow fall into your lap, if you can improve by cheaply changing the mix of your blueline, you should do so.
- johndewar

'Cheaply' is the key word here. Any moves have to be cost effective, and I fully expect Hextall to kick all the tires he can in looking to improve. I just hope he is frugal when push comes to shove.

You're right that those stud defensemen don't grow on trees.

Ideally, you draft and develop those guys. There are no guarentees.

However, when you don't draft and develop those guys and you can't sign them or trade for them, it's best to make defense a team effort and to have a good mix on your blueline. The guys on the blueline for the Flyers are perfectly fine, individually in a vacuum, but together, they don't work real well.

Short of getting a Shea Weber or having Drew Doughty somehow fall into your lap, if you can improve by cheaply changing the mix of your blueline, you should do so.
- johndewar

Oh by no means am I saying they are a perfect mix. BUt I am not saying they are dreck either. Also I am hoping with a full training camp and offseason to really implement Berubes system the team d as a whole is improved.

Also not everything will be done this year will to improve the team. I just like the fact of getting a young d like Bogosian now and then moving forward. If it does cost something like Schenn I have more faith in the flyers developing forwards and think they could find a way replace him even if it using Couturier as a 2nd line center and Laughton or some young vet on the 3rd line.

My first move would still be to move Vinny is possible. I think you need to be first before guys like Spezza and Thorton and Marleau and ROR and Stastny start moving to teams.

Where did the Bruins, Blues, Hawks, Kings, Preds, Yotes, Wild, etc. find them? They all got lucky I guess.
- PLindbergh31

Weber was our third defenseman,4th overall, drafted in 2003. Seth Jones hopefully will turn out to be our next. 4th pick overall or late second round. You have to either get lucky in developing a rough frame, Weber, or just get lucky, Jones. Typically trading or going after UFA costs too much.

'Cheaply' is the key word here. Any moves have to be cost effective, and I fully expect Hextall to kick all the tires he can in looking to improve. I just hope he is frugal when push comes to shove.
- tangent_man

Weber was our third defenseman,4th overall, drafted in 2003. Seth Jones hopefully will turn out to be our next. 4th pick overall or late second round. You have to either get lucky in developing a rough frame, Weber, or just get lucky, Jones. Typically trading or going after UFA costs too much.
- Vegas Trotzkies

Agreed. Drafting and developing them is definitely the way to go. The Flyers haven't done this in 30+ years.

When Schenn plays within himself he is a solid player. He is an underrated passer as he made really nice breakout passes last season. If we move Grossmann and SChenn then you might not have someone clear sight lines for Mason or someone who can stand up at the blue line. There have been times guys pull up when schenn is on the ice because he has caught guys trying to carry puck into the zone.
- J35Bacher

Schenn is a decent # 5 right now....hopefully he can start to play "with in himself" with more consistency....thats what his game lacks currently. There are signs that he has potential to perhaps be a decent 3-4 guy in the future....I won't hold my breath.

Correct.

I think I would be ok with the risk. He is only 23.
- J35Bacher

Hell be 24 in a month and has played six NHL seasons already. I'm not against trading for him because he's old, I'm against trading for him because (like Luke Schenn who is only 4 months older than Bogo) he may already be close to being fully developed.

And because the Flyers already have a ton of cap money tied up in defenders.

MacDonald - 6 more years at $5m
Streit - 3 more years at $5.25m
Pronger - 3 more years at $4.94m
Coburn - 2 more years at $4.5m
Schenn - 2 more years at $3.6m
Grossmann - 2 more years at $3.5m

Where did the Bruins, Blues, Hawks, Kings, Preds, Yotes, Wild, etc. find them? They all got lucky I guess.
- PLindbergh31

Kind of. Teams were lucky their draft picks turned out as good as they thougght and Bruins were lucky in a way that the Sens wanted Redden instead of Chara.

That is why I would go after Bogosian. At 23 he could still turn into your number 1.

He was in that 08 draft with Doughty, and Peitroangelo.

Hell be 24 in a month and has played six NHL seasons already. I'm not against trading for him because he's old, I'm against trading for him because (like Luke Schenn who is only 4 months older than Bogo) he may already be close to being fully developed.

And because the Flyers already have a ton of cap money tied up in defenders.

MacDonald - 6 more years at $5m
Streit - 3 more years at $5.25m
Pronger - 3 more years at $4.94m
Coburn - 2 more years at $4.5m
Schenn - 2 more years at $3.6m
Grossmann - 2 more years at $3.5m
- Feanor

Minor point
Pronger has an actual salary of only 550k during his last 2 seasons, my guess is he gets traded after this season to a team struggling to reach the cap floor.

Kind of. Teams were lucky their draft picks turned out as good as they thougght and Bruins were lucky in a way that the Sens wanted Redden instead of Chara.

That is why I would go after Bogosian. At 23 he could still turn into your number 1.

He was in that 08 draft with Doughty, and Peitroangelo.
- J35Bacher

I agree there is some luck involved, but the Flyers track record regarding drafting and developing defenseman isn't all bad luck. Not by a long shot.

Hell be 24 in a month and has played six NHL seasons already. I'm not against trading for him because he's old, I'm against trading for him because (like Luke Schenn who is only 4 months older than Bogo) he may already be close to being fully developed.

And because the Flyers already have a ton of cap money tied up in defenders.

MacDonald - 6 more years at $5m
Streit - 3 more years at $5.25m
Pronger - 3 more years at $4.94m
Coburn - 2 more years at $4.5m
Schenn - 2 more years at $3.6m
Grossmann - 2 more years at $3.5m
- Feanor

I would think if you got bogosian then your probably moving someone out like Schenn or Grossmann or maybe even Macdonald.

More to do with the injury to Pronger, after the cost to trade for him and subsequently trying to fill the hole left by him than anything. Flyers had far too many drafts where they sat idle until the third round.

While I understand why they have spent what they did, I disagree with some of the pieces they added. As Bill noted, after the loss to NJ, they loaded up on righty shooting defensemen...but trouble is, only Luke Schenn was capable of handling a top 6 role. That's what I mean when I say I question some of the decisions they make.
- Jsaquella

Again some context is needed here. Does anyone really think the Flyers signed Gervais or Foster expecting them to be regular top 6 NHL defenseman? Gervias was a depth signing to be a part 6/7 defenseman. Foster was signed in January of 13, because of all the injuries the Flyers had. Does that get any consideration? Meszaros, Coburn, Grossmann, Gustafsson, all missed time to injury that season. Flyers were playing Lauridsen down the stretch. But now signing Foster is labeled questionable. And I don't know how many on this site, suggested Foster in the past, for the Flyers. Due to his big point shot.

Minor point
Pronger has an actual salary of only 550k during his last 2 seasons, my guess is he gets traded after this season to a team struggling to reach the cap floor.
- BiggE

That would be great.

I agree there is some luck involved, but the Flyers track record regarding drafting and developing defenseman isn't all bad luck. Not by a long shot.
- PLindbergh31

I would love for them to draft and develop someone. But the draft is littered with guys that were thought to be better and never developed. Some fault also has to fall onto the player too not just the orginzation. Guys have to be willing to work too.

It would cause a lot of teams to reshape things. But replacing Pronger with a bunch of lesser parts has left them with an expensive, but unspectacular defense that still needs a number one defenseman to anchor things. Maybe instead of trading three second rounders, three third rounders and a fourth rounder for Streit, MacDonald, Grossmann and Kubina, they could have packaged all those pick together for a legit top pair guy of higher quality. Or held those picks and used a 1st rounder to land one.
- Jsaquella

You don't get a legitimate top pair guy for that collection of picks. It also discounts what the Flyers defense would of looked like without adding those players. As well as not considering what legit top pair defenseman was available.

I think you hit the nail on the head JSAQ. I think the Flyers try to overcompensate by not having that top pairing stud by basically paying everyone on their blueline 4+ million per year. I would much rather have that top end monster making in the 7-8 range, then overpaying guys like MacDonald. Like you said, if the market for Andrew MacDonald is 5+, let someone else give it to him.
- PLindbergh31

Who wouldn't want that top end monster making in the 7-8 million per year, over MacDonald. So tell me what monster we can acquire? We can always trade MacDonald.