Before or after hit by a car?
- FlyersGrace

Maybe while being hit by the car. Eyes shut tight, hurtling backwards uncontrollably, with intense pain over every part of your body. You know, the same sensation you get when you look at Crosby's playoff "beard."

Well, when you consider they had a $4M defenseman in the press box...
- jmatchett383

A bargain now

Same. I think he'd be a lot better on a third pairing. $5M seems like a lot for a third pairing. I mean by NHL standards, not Flyer standards.
- PhillySportsGuy

Thats my point. He is a solid d-man, but is much better suited as a third pairing guy. A 5th d-man who can move up and play a bit higher, but is better suited keeping his simple game and trying to stay as invisible as possible.

$5 million for 6 years? You are talking 2-3 money. Uh uh, no way.

So basically what I got from this is that a defenseman is only as good as those in front of him. Is that what you are saying?


- jak521

Not at all. What I'm saying is that defenseman can look bad without the team and forward support on the ice. And that if you put defenseman such as Boychuck and Oduya on this Flyers team, in the same situaitons, and without the studs in front of them, such as Chara, Keith, and Seasbrooke, the same thing would happen to them.

Listen I dont think there is any debate that having great two way play makes it easier on the d... but the defense still needs to be good. MacDonald is what he is. The problem is that he is exposed, as are some of our other d-men (*most of our d-men) because we have them playing out of their scope.

MacDonald absolutely was an improvement to our defense, hell Modry may have been, but that doesnt mean he is a overall top 4 d-man. Our defense has serious limitations. That isnt MacDonalds fault. Im not pinning anything on the guy.. I just think he is a minor improvement to an already limited d.

You could move him to Chicago, and Im fairly certain he would do better.... because he wouldnt have the same responsibilities that he has here. Thats how I see it.
- jak521

MacDonald is absolutely a top 4 NHL defenseman. And was a significant upgrade for the team.

In my opinion, I don't think we upgrade D this season. I think Hextall is going to take a nice long look at the D in the system and determine whether or not he trades or keeps them. My gut tells me this offseason is going to be quiet with some minor moves on short contracts while Hextall really takes a good long look at what we have.

(Now that I have typed that the blow up can begin).

One thing we haven't discussed is whether or not Hextall keeps Berube. We all just kinda assumed it. But he doesn't have to.

Why do you think the Flyers have such a good history with their first rounders? We all know they only draft forwards in round one
- Giroux_Is_God

That's probably at least 50% of their track-record, for sure. They also find good value in guys with one or two flaws that other teams are more scared to take... like a certain small, one-way, finesse kid who went undrafted in the Q.

Thats my point. He is a solid d-man, but is much better suited as a third pairing guy. A 5th d-man who can move up and play a bit higher, but is better suited keeping his simple game and trying to stay as invisible as possible.

$5 million for 6 years? You are talking 2-3 money. Uh uh, no way.
- jak521

His primary problem is his inability to hold the blue line. He concedes possession into the offensive zone way too often. He allows carry-ins at a far greater rate than any other defenseman on the Flyers or the Islanders.

If he improved that part of his game, he could become a solid #3 dman IMO. He has a good stick and good mobility. There is no reason he can't improve in this area. I just hope he and the team recognize this as a weakness.

In my opinion, I don't think we upgrade D this season. I think Hextall is going to take a nice long look at the D in the system and determine whether or not he trades or keeps them. My gut tells me this offseason is going to be quiet with some minor moves on short contracts while Hextall really takes a good long look at what we have.

(Now that I have typed that the blow up can begin).

One thing we haven't discussed is whether or not Hextall keeps Berube. We all just kinda assumed it. But he doesn't have to.
- FlyersGrace

Agreed about the D.

And though you raise an interesting point about Roobz, I definitely think he sticks around. If they didn't go after a guy like Trotz when they had the chance, I think that tells you all you need to know

That's probably at least 50% of their track-record, for sure. They also find good value in guys with one or two flaws that other teams are more scared to take... like a certain small, one-way, finesse kid who went undrafted in the Q.
- Tomahawk

Can't think of his name....

If I read it somewhere I'll remember it though.

They do seem to score diamonds like that more than other teams, eh? Now if only one or 2 their 2nd-3rd rounders can be a home run

In my opinion, I don't think we upgrade D this season. I think Hextall is going to take a nice long look at the D in the system and determine whether or not he trades or keeps them. My gut tells me this offseason is going to be quiet with some minor moves on short contracts while Hextall really takes a good long look at what we have.

(Now that I have typed that the blow up can begin).

One thing we haven't discussed is whether or not Hextall keeps Berube. We all just kinda assumed it. But he doesn't have to.
- FlyersGrace

I disagree with Berube on certain things, but I feel he's earned a chance to go into the season as the coach. I don't think he has a long leash though.

I agree about the offseason. Minor tweak to the D and upgrading the forwards to create 4, two-way lines.

Can't think of his name....

If I read it somewhere I'll remember it though.

They do seem to score diamonds like that more than other teams, eh? Now if only one or 2 their 2nd-3rd rounders can be a home run
- Giroux_Is_God

2nd rounders are myths, I don't think they exist. I haven't seen one in so long.

New Bill thingy

Can't think of his name....
- Giroux_Is_God

He's god, if that helps.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that defenseman can look bad without the team and forward support on the ice. And that if you put defenseman such as Boychuck and Oduya on this Flyers team, in the same situaitons, and without the studs in front of them, such as Chara, Keith, and Seasbrooke, the same thing would happen to them.
- MJL

Again, of course it makes it easier.. You dont have the same responsibilities. Look at Coburn. When he was relied on to be our number one.. he was brutal. Terrible. He is not a number one. Hell, I dont think he is a very good number 2. But he is a very good second pairing guy. If he played with a bit more anger and brought out a bit more offense he could be a 1/b 2/a guy, but he doesnt consistently, so to me is he a 2/b guy. You put Mac on those teams and he can play his simple game and will be good in his role. 3rd pairing.

MacDonald is absolutely a top 4 NHL defenseman. And was a significant upgrade for the team.
- MJL

Yes he was a significant upgrade.. because, you know, Hal Gill was our other viable option.

He's god, if that helps.
- Tomahawk

Akeson?

Yes he was a significant upgrade.. because, you know, Hal Gill was our other viable option.
- jak521

Just dumping Mez was considered obvious addition by subtraction

Just dumping Mez was considered obvious addition by subtraction
- Tomahawk

I need to be patient.. i know that.. but this defense is not very pretty.

AMac had bad and good games too... more bad in the PO's the more minutes he played.

I would have much rather them have just put Gus in the lineup and live w/ his ups and downs... and Schenn would have still had his mobile/puck-handling partner.
- Tomahawk

I'm a pretty harah when judging players and I thought MacDonald was an easy and obvious upgrade over Gustafsson and Meszaros.

Yes he was a significant upgrade.. because, you know, Hal Gill was our other viable option.
- jak521

Hal Gill was never anything more then the team's 7th defenseman, and most times was the 8th. MacDonald was an upgrade over Schenn and Grossmann. Two regulars in the Flyers lineup. And while he's not the offensive player tht Streit is, he is a better all around defenseman then Streit is, in my opinion. So the Hal Gill comment doesn't make a lot of sense.

Hal Gill was never anything more then the team's 7th defenseman, and most times was the 8th. MacDonald was an upgrade over Schenn and Grossmann. Two regulars in the Flyers lineup. And while he's not the offensive player tht Streit is, he is a better all around defenseman then Streit is, in my opinion. So the Hal Gill comment doesn't make a lot of sense.
- MJL

Yep