I put him right there with some of the top 4 defenseman on some of those teams. Such as Boychuk or Oduya. And I disagree that he is only a top 4 defenseman on teams with crappy D. I don't consider the Flyers D a crappy D.
- MJL

I shouldnt have said crappy... mediocre.

The point is, Mac went from one mediocre d, to another mediocre d, and really didnt produce that much while he was here in his limited time. He played 26 games with the Flyers including the playoffs... He ended up with 1 goal, 5 assists, a -5 and he got rewarded with a 6 year contract at 5 mil per.

Im sorry, I dont see him as a very good top 4. He is one of our better d-men.. but thats our biggest area of weakness.

So thinking about yesterday and possibly Vinny ok with going to FLA would you guys be ok with a swap like this:

TO FLA:
Vinny

TO PHI:
Tomas Fleishmann
Dan Ellis



We get a winger who has had success but could use a change. Also only has one year on deal. In Ellis we get a back up goalie at 900k. Money is allabout the same. FLA gets vinny who can help take pressure of yungsters and probably play a good amount of minutes.
- J35Bacher

Earlier I saw you posted a Vinny for Kulikov swap. Why the hell do you think Florida would do either of these?

I agree. Our D is not crappy it just lacks top end talent. unfortunatley unless you get lucky and find one in the draft or get a Chara where they are late developing then you have to try and put together collection of dmen that have roles. Yes the Flyers D is not perfect but I think far from crappy. Also a lot can be helped when the forwards are commited to team d instead of flying out of the zone quickly or not backchecking.
- J35Bacher

Very well said. Adding that legitimate #1 would change everything for this team's defense core.

I rank the Flyers current defensemen in this order:

1. Brayden Coburn
2. Kimmo Timonen
3. Mark Streit
4. Andrew MacDonald
5. Luke Schenn
6. Niklas Grossman

Schenn and MacDonald are very close in order though they do different things.
- ManCity

Thats a mediocre group at best.

Very well said. Adding that legitimate #1 would change everything for this team's defense core.
- MJL

You are absolutely correct... Adding a number one would.

#1- Coburn
Timonen- Streit
MacDonald-Schenn

See.. it puts MacDonald in his proper pairing.

I shouldnt have said crappy... mediocre.

The point is, Mac went from one mediocre d, to another mediocre d, and really didnt produce that much while he was here in his limited time. He played 26 games with the Flyers including the playoffs... He ended up with 1 goal, 5 assists, a -5 and he got rewarded with a 6 year contract at 5 mil per.

Im sorry, I dont see him as a very good top 4. He is one of our better d-men.. but thats our biggest area of weakness.
- jak521

I think it was obvious that MacDonald was a solid addition and upgraded the Flyers defense. He has a strong ability to handle the puck in traffic under pressure, buy time with skating, and make a quality outlet pass. He also is solid positionally, and defensively. As well as being an outstanding shot blocker. It remains to be seen how much of a point producer he is going to be. But he definitely has some offensive ability, as well as being able to man the point on the 2nd unit PP. It was a solid addition to the team.

Here's the bottom line about playing defense. Good defenseman can look bad at times without the support from the team. If MacDonald was on Boston or Chicago. And Boychuck or Oduya was on the Flyers. The conversation would be the same but the names would be reversed. It's a hell of a lot easier to play defensively when you have solid all around team play, and consistent puck support, game in and game out. That is not consistent with the Flyers, and it makes the Flyers defenseman look bad at times.

And one other thing. If the Flyers overplay MacDonald, and use him a lot against top lines, he'll be a scapegoat of the fans on occasion. He's not a top pair defenseman. He's a 2nd pair top 4 all around player.

You are absolutely correct... Adding a number one would.

#1- Coburn
Timonen- Streit
MacDonald-Schenn

See.. it puts MacDonald in his proper pairing.
- jak521

That's your opinion that's what the pairings would be. In my opinion if that happened, the Flyers would have 6 legitimate top 4 NHL defenseman. And that 3rd pair, whatever it would be, would be a 3rd pair in name only.

Thats a mediocre group at best.
- jak521

The mix may not be right. But every player in that group is a solid NHL defenseman.

I don't agree with that statement at all.
- MBFlyerfan

That's fine my friend but Luke Schenn was a third pair defenseman all of last season, while Grossmann has been a second pair defenseman, who's called upon to take on tougher opponents when Timonen was injured or sat out to rest. I would be more then happy to see a Coburn-Grossmann pair next season.

Earlier I saw you posted a Vinny for Kulikov swap. Why the hell do you think Florida would do either of these?
- jak521

At the deadline they were looking to move Fleishmanns contract. he has had some injuries and production dropped. FLA has a host of young talent but need some vets to help with the maturing and leadership. Yes I would love Kulikov for Vinny and that was based off Kulikov was not happy and there were reports he could pull his KHL card and go there. If FLA has trouble signing him maybe a deal could be made. AS for Fleishmann it makes sense as FLA gets a 20 goal scoring vet with size and can help the younger forwards. PHI gets a natural winger who can play in top six and back up goalie. FLA could just resign Clemmenson.

That's fine my friend but Luke Schenn was a third pair defenseman all of last season, while Grossmann has been a second pair defenseman, who's called upon to take on tougher opponents when Timonen was injured or sat out to rest. I would be more then happy to see a Coburn-Grossmann pair next season.
- SuperSchennBros

I don't think you can say Grossmann was moved to top pair as much as it was to keep a skating dman with a stay at home. By the end of the year I think Schenn and MacDonald were seeing more time then Grossmann and Streit.

The mix of the d is not great. I think they could use one more really good skating dman. Someone like Del Zotto or of that skill set who can carry the puck out of the zone if need be or hold onto the puck a little more if nothing is there.

- MBFlyerfan

HOLY poop THEY ARE GOIN ROCK WITH THE TEQUILA

EDIT: I'm so taking the Cup and welding it to my 94 saturn as a hood ornament. Just to spite Blondie (no, not the band)

I rank the Flyers current defensemen in this order:

1. Brayden Coburn
2. Kimmo Timonen
3. Mark Streit
4. Andrew MacDonald
5. Luke Schenn
6. Niklas Grossman

Schenn and MacDonald are very close in order though they do different things.
- ManCity

Timonen might not be a number defenseman anymore but he's still an all situations guy by playing on the top PP unit, first pair, PK and probably will be on the ice in the dying minutes when trying to hang on to a leas.

Timonen
Coburn
McDonald (PP and PK, I expect a bigger role in his first full season)
Streit
Grossmann
Schenn

Streit plays on the PP ( not the PK ), Grossmann plays the PK ( not the PP ). I wouldn't underrated Grossmann because he'll be the first to be paired with Coburn if needs to sit. Grossmann man could easily be insered upwards beyond Streit.

Just my opinion but I could be wrong.

SO I read the Devils blog and they might not use their compliance buyout. They already have too many NHL d. This is where I would use an OS for Larsson and make the Devils make a choice. OS in the range of giving up just a 3rd rounder would be enough to make Devils make a choice.

I don't think you can say Grossmann was moved to top pair as much as it was to keep a skating dman with a stay at home. By the end of the year I think Schenn and MacDonald were seeing more time then Grossmann and Streit.

The mix of the d is not great. I think they could use one more really good skating dman. Someone like Del Zotto or of that skill set who can carry the puck out of the zone if need be or hold onto the puck a little more if nothing is there.
- J35Bacher

You might be right but I think this has more to do with Timonen not sitting as much as I must make him sound, plus Streit and Grossmann are a really bad pair.

Grossmann-Coburn
McDonald-Streit
Timonen-Schenn

I would go with this in a heartbeat.

SO I read the Devils blog and they might not use their compliance buyout. They already have too many NHL d. This is where I would use an OS for Larsson and make the Devils make a choice. OS in the range of giving up just a 3rd rounder would be enough to make Devils make a choice.
- J35Bacher

They would match anything other than a 1st rounder. They aren't going to give up Larsson for a 3rd rounder.

I put him right there with some of the top 4 defenseman on some of those teams. Such as Boychuk or Oduya. And I disagree that he is only a top 4 defenseman on teams with crappy D. I don't consider the Flyers D a crappy D.
- MJL

No.

I think it was obvious that MacDonald was a solid addition and upgraded the Flyers defense.
- MJL

Not so obvious.

SO I read the Devils blog and they might not use their compliance buyout. They already have too many NHL d. This is where I would use an OS for Larsson and make the Devils make a choice. OS in the range of giving up just a 3rd rounder would be enough to make Devils make a choice.
- J35Bacher

He's a prime example of why we don't rush kids, especially defensemen.

Man, has he fallen by the wayside or what?

Still time though. The developmental curve for defensemen is an arduous one, more often than not.

No.

Not so obvious.
- Tomahawk

Certainly an economic comment. Short and sweet

He's a prime example of why we don't rush kids, especially defensemen.

Man, has he fallen by the wayside or what?

Still time though. The developmental curve for defensemen is an arduous one, more often than not.
- Giroux_Is_God

Most draft pundits thought he was NHL ready when he was drafted. In hindsight, he should have come over and played in the AHL first.

The mix may not be right. But every player in that group is a solid NHL defenseman.
- MJL

No question. I think Berube should juggle the pairs a little and not be satisfied with sticking with one thing. Even in Matt Carle's final season I've seen a Timonen-Carle pair that I hated.

Most draft pundits thought he was NHL ready when he was drafted. In hindsight, he should have come over and played in the AHL first.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah I remember. I hadn't heard otherwise, honestly. Litrilly everyone thought he was ready to jump in and be at the very least semi effective in the NHL.

In all honesty though, I thought he was going to be send down to the A. The Devils were gonna suck that year right? Hindisight is 20/20 blah blah but objectively looking at it, this is a team that wasn't going anywhere. Why throw the kid into the volcano right away?

See the gold standard for developing D prospects, and my favorite non-Flyer: Pietrangelo

EDIT: He was 18 when they drafted him. Would've been sent back to Juniors, not the AHL. Still, my point stands.

Most draft pundits thought he was NHL ready when he was drafted. In hindsight, he should have come over and played in the AHL first.
- PhillySportsGuy

Think they wanted him under the eye of Larry Robinson and not back in Skelleftea... think he was still under contract w/ them if he didn't make the Devs.

You are absolutely correct... Adding a number one would.

#1- Coburn
Timonen- Streit
MacDonald-Schenn

See.. it puts MacDonald in his proper pairing.
- jak521

i would actually flip streit and macdonald....