My guess is, when a trade like this goes down, the team already has a deal in principle with the player or agent, and the pick is a nice way to avoid a tampering charge.

See, talking to you means I need a tinfoil hat now
- Jsaquella

I would have doubts that giving up a pick for a player would make the NHL look the other way, if they knew for a fact that tampering took place. To appease the team that the player came from, possibly.

Look, I'm not oblivious. All you're really avoiding is the phone calls. All you have to do is look at some of the free agent "losses" the Flyers have taken. Last year they thought they had Red Wing boy and their inability to sign him resulted in the contract offer and course reversal. They let Carle hang when they thought they had a deal in place and bang... Tampa Bay. Once a player gets to free agency anything can happen.

Sure, prior to July 1 no team was maybe offering Kimo 6.5. Things change as the day progresses. Maybe there are two teams who don't want to spend that much money who are both looking at Brian Rafalski, he signs with Detroit and they throw an extra 500,000 at Kimmo.

There are risks in free agency whether you trade for rights or wait for 7/1. You hate it, I don't like it but it's a chance to nail down the player you want. The Flyers did it again this season so it looks like it's not ending.
- mayorofangrytown

Good points. When you own the player's rights, you control your own destiny as much as possible. When July 1 comes, all bets are off.
We saw that with Suter and Parise. It was well known that they wanted to play together and that Minnesota was the likely destination before free agency. That didn't stop the Flyers from getting into the mix.

Look, I'm not oblivious. All you're really avoiding is the phone calls. All you have to do is look at some of the free agent "losses" the Flyers have taken. Last year they thought they had Red Wing boy and their inability to sign him resulted in the contract offer and course reversal. They let Carle hang when they thought they had a deal in place and bang... Tampa Bay. Once a player gets to free agency anything can happen.

Sure, prior to July 1 no team was maybe offering Kimo 6.5. Things change as the day progresses. Maybe there are two teams who don't want to spend that much money who are both looking at Brian Rafalski, he signs with Detroit and they throw an extra 500,000 at Kimmo.

There are risks in free agency whether you trade for rights or wait for 7/1. You hate it, I don't like it but it's a chance to nail down the player you want. The Flyers did it again this season so it looks like it's not ending.
- mayorofangrytown

Tbh, I wish the NHL wouldn't allow these types of deals and just give compensatory picks like the NFL does.

Tbh, I wish the NHL wouldn't allow these types of deals and just give compensatory picks like the NFL does.
- PhillySportsGuy

The NFL is a different animal as far as money is concerned. Every team makes a boatload. I don't want the poorer NHL teams always getting extra picks because they can't afford players. There is too much of a difference between teams financially in the NHL.

https://www.numberfire.co...first-round-track-records

I really don't know how RAJ still has a job. According to the fancy stats, the Phillies are the least successful team drafting in the first round in all of baseball since 2004. They are the only team with a cumulative negative WAR. Basically, the Phillies would have been better off had they not made any first round picks since 2004.

Edit: Posting this in honor of the MLB draft tonight. Sorry if you don't care. Thought it was interesting.

The NFL is a different animal as far as money is concerned. Every team makes a boatload. I don't want the poorer NHL teams always getting extra picks because they can't afford players. There is too much of a difference between teams financially in the NHL.
- MJL

Middle round picks. Highest compensation would be a 3rd.

I feel it would be a good compromise.

Edit: Compensatory picks are used at the END of the round. A compensatory 3rd is really just an early 4th.

https://www.numberfire.co...first-round-track-records

I really don't know how RAJ still has a job. According to the fancy stats, the Phillies are the least successful team drafting in the first round in all of baseball since 2004. They are the only team with a cumulative negative WAR. Basically, the Phillies would have been better off had they not made any first round picks since 2004.

Edit: Posting this in honor of the MLB draft tonight. Sorry if you don't care. Thought it was interesting.
- PhillySportsGuy

Personally, I think he has done a lousy job for the most part. But he was put into a tough spot. First of all, he had to follow a Hall of Fame GM, who pretty much performed miracles, and could do no wrong. Amaro had to try and keep what Ed Wade started, and what Gillick topped off, going. That ownership wanted the sell outs to continue. And wouldn't accept what really should have happened. And that was a rebuild. Walking away from Howard, trading players such as Utley, and Lee. They wanted to keep winning. It's clearly not working.

With that being said, there were clear mistakes made by Amaro. He didn't make a good deal in trading Lee before bringing him back. Ben Revere stinks. What kind of leadoff hitter has 4 walks and a inept OBP? And on and on.

Good article on Comcast Sportsnet about Darrin Ruff. He's hurt now, but why can't he get a shot.

And what happened to Domonic Brown? I thought he was a 5 tool player?

https://www.numberfire.co...first-round-track-records

I really don't know how RAJ still has a job. According to the fancy stats, the Phillies are the least successful team drafting in the first round in all of baseball since 2004. They are the only team with a cumulative negative WAR. Basically, the Phillies would have been better off had they not made any first round picks since 2004.

Edit: Posting this in honor of the MLB draft tonight. Sorry if you don't care. Thought it was interesting.
- PhillySportsGuy

I would rather have Ed Wade back as GM. That's how bad Ruin Tomorrow Jr. has been. This team is painfully bad right now. Im actually pretty excited about the draft tonight as we have the highest pick we've had in years. I'm just not confident at all the RAJ will make a quality pick. Ill be pissed if he takes a pitcher. We need an impact bat in the worst way.

Tbh, I wish the NHL wouldn't allow these types of deals and just give compensatory picks like the NFL does.
- PhillySportsGuy

Probably never happen. I don't mind these deals being legal, I just really would prefer that the Flyers don't make them.

Personally, I think he has done a lousy job for the most part. But he was put into a tough spot. First of all, he had to follow a Hall of Fame GM, who pretty much performed miracles, and could do no wrong. Amaro had to try and keep what Ed Wade started, and what Gillick topped off, going. That ownership wanted the sell outs to continue. And wouldn't accept what really should have happened. And that was a rebuild. Walking away from Howard, trading players such as Utley, and Lee. They wanted to keep winning. It's clearly not working.

With that being said, there were clear mistakes made by Amaro. He didn't make a good deal in trading Lee before bringing him back. Ben Revere stinks. What kind of leadoff hitter has 4 walks and a inept OBP? And on and on.

Good article on Comcast Sportsnet about Darrin Ruff. He's hurt now, but why can't he get a shot.

And what happened to Domonic Brown? I thought he was a 5 tool player?
- MJL

He's terrible right now but I still think he could end up being a good player. He looks like he has no confidence right now. He looks like he just learned how to play last week.

Personally, I think he has done a lousy job for the most part. But he was put into a tough spot. First of all, he had to follow a Hall of Fame GM, who pretty much performed miracles, and could do no wrong. Amaro had to try and keep what Ed Wade started, and what Gillick topped off, going. That ownership wanted the sell outs to continue. And wouldn't accept what really should have happened. And that was a rebuild. Walking away from Howard, trading players such as Utley, and Lee. They wanted to keep winning. It's clearly not working.

With that being said, there were clear mistakes made by Amaro. He didn't make a good deal in trading Lee before bringing him back. Ben Revere stinks. What kind of leadoff hitter has 4 walks and a inept OBP? And on and on.

Good article on Comcast Sportsnet about Darrin Ruff. He's hurt now, but why can't he get a shot.

And what happened to Domonic Brown? I thought he was a 5 tool player?
- MJL

This dates back to Gillick though. They need to re-tool their entire scouting staff. They simply aren't evaluating players very well.

He's terrible right now but I still think he could end up being a good player. He looks like he has no confidence right now. He looks like he just learned how to play last week.
- JonnyHammerstix

Ryan Howard, who is a cleanup power hitter, and is batting .228. Has a higher OBP then Ben Revere who is a leadoff singles hitter, batting .282

I would rather have Ed Wade back as GM. That's how bad Ruin Tomorrow Jr. has been. This team is painfully bad right now. Im actually pretty excited about the draft tonight as we have the highest pick we've had in years. I'm just not confident at all the RAJ will make a quality pick. Ill be pissed if he takes a pitcher. We need an impact bat in the worst way.
- JonnyHammerstix

Depends on what happens and who falls to them. If they take a high schooler, don't expect anything too soon from him.

By all accounts, they appear to have hit on Crawford last year. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut I suppose.

This dates back to Gillick though. They need to re-tool their entire scouting staff. They simply aren't evaluating players very well.
- PhillySportsGuy

No, they aren't drafting very well. Combined with the numbers of players that they've given away. I read the other day, that the player the gave as player to be named later in getting Pence, is tearing AAA up.

Ryan Howard, who is a cleanup power hitter, and is batting .228. Has a higher OBP then Ben Revere who is a leadoff singles hitter, batting .282
- MJL

Revere's inability to hit for any power gives pitchers no incentive to be careful with him. If I fall behind Revere, I'm going to throw a fastball right down the middle and live with the consequences.

The modern leadoff hitter is a guy with some power too. It's not like the old days where it's just a slap hitter with speed.

https://www.numberfire.co...first-round-track-records

I really don't know how RAJ still has a job. According to the fancy stats, the Phillies are the least successful team drafting in the first round in all of baseball since 2004. They are the only team with a cumulative negative WAR. Basically, the Phillies would have been better off had they not made any first round picks since 2004.

Edit: Posting this in honor of the MLB draft tonight. Sorry if you don't care. Thought it was interesting.
- PhillySportsGuy

If Rube the boob still has his job by the end of this season, every Phils STH should be allowed to line up and kick Dave Montgomery square in the nuts!

Ryan Howard, who is a cleanup power hitter, and is batting .228. Has a higher OBP then Ben Revere who is a leadoff singles hitter, batting .282
- MJL

Yea I cant stand Ben Revere. His only asset is his speed which he can never use because he doesnt know how to take a walk and he has 0 power to drive the ball in the gap. He has no clue in the outfield with the routes he takes to balls and he has the worst arm I've ever seen. Fortunately it only cost us Worley who ended up being an epic bust.

No, they aren't drafting very well. Combined with the numbers of players that they've given away. I read the other day, that the player the gave as player to be named later in getting Pence, is tearing AAA up.
- MJL

They gave up Singleton and Cosart in that deal. Both of those guys have upside and are playing for Houston. Travis D'arnaud was said to be really good too. He went to Toronto in the Halladay deal and is now on the Mets. He still hasn't put things together though.

If Rube the boob still has his job by the end of this season, every Phils STH should be allowed to line up and kick Dave Montgomery square in the nuts!
- BiggE

I would get season tickets just to have the opportunity to do that

Revere's inability to hit for any power gives pitchers no incentive to be careful with him. If I fall behind Revere, I'm going to throw a fastball right down the middle and live with the consequences.

The modern leadoff hitter is a guy with some power too. It's not like the old days where it's just a slap hitter with speed.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's true, but how about a fricken walk for a leadoff hitter? It's June, and I think he has 4 walks on the Season!

Depends on what happens and who falls to them. If they take a high schooler, don't expect anything too soon from him.

By all accounts, they appear to have hit on Crawford last year. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut I suppose.
- PhillySportsGuy

We'll see. It depends on how they handle him. Hopefully they don't yoyo him back and forth and destroy any and all confidence in him like they did Brown. He does seem promising tho

They gave up Singleton and Cosart in that deal. Both of those guys have upside and are playing for Houston. Travis D'arnaud was said to be really good too. He went to Toronto in the Halladay deal and is now on the Mets. He still hasn't put things together though.
- PhillySportsGuy

There's another guy I read about in an article, I can't remember where. That was a part of the deal. I think his name was Santiago or something like that.

I would get season tickets just to have the opportunity to do that
- PhillySportsGuy

Yea I cant stand Ben Revere. His only asset is his speed which he can never use because he doesnt know how to take a walk and he has 0 power to drive the ball in the gap. He has no clue in the outfield with the routes he takes to balls and he has the worst arm I've ever seen. Fortunately it only cost us Worley who ended up being an epic bust.
- JonnyHammerstix

And Trevor May. THankfully, he's fallen off as a prospect as well.

I don't understand who was evaluating Revere. It's as if they didn't watch him ever play and just watched highlights.

That's true, but how about a fricken walk for a leadoff hitter? It's June, and I think he has 4 walks on the Season!
- MJL

He can't walk. Pitchers won't let him. If he takes pitches, he'll fall behind in every at bat. His home run rate is epically bad. One of the worst in the history of the game for a position player.