- jmatchett383

Nice. Thats pretty much the perfect reaction

No flyers talk in eks UFA blog I LOVE IT

Isles fans are loving this Boyle trade while still slamming streits contract. Wait til Boyle signs if he does with them. What a hoot that will be haaaaa

I hate trading assets for rights. Hate it. Waste of draft choices.

Sure it gives you an early window, but it also basically forces your hand. The player and his agent know you are interested enough to give up an asset, so basically they can say here's our price. If you don't, we're not the guys who gave up a 3rd rounder.

I hate trading assets for rights. Hate it. Waste of draft choices.

Sure it gives you an early window, but it also basically forces your hand. The player and his agent know you are interested enough to give up an asset, so basically they can say here's our price. If you don't, we're not the guys who gave up a 3rd rounder.
- Jsaquella

it worked for timo/fartnell but i don't think i'd care to risk it any more

lucked out with the hamhuis thing too, luck there is all used up

it worked for timo/fartnell but i don't think i'd care to risk it any more

lucked out with the hamhuis thing too, luck there is all used up
- -davies-

How did it work with them? It's not like either of them left a penny on the table to sign here.

it worked for timo/fartnell but i don't think i'd care to risk it any more

lucked out with the hamhuis thing too, luck there is all used up
- -davies-

Don't forget Bryz. Clackson and a 3rd.

How did it work with them? It's not like either of them left a penny on the table to sign here.
- Jsaquella

Still ensured that we got them before a bidding war ensued.

How did it work with them? It's not like either of them left a penny on the table to sign here.
- Jsaquella

worked out in that the org got and retained the two players they wanted and those players turned out to do well for the flyers. not talking about money, just talking about risking assets for rights.

Don't forget Bryz. Clackson and a 3rd.
- jmatchett383

the luck is used up like i said

Still ensured that we got them before a bidding war ensued.
- jmatchett383

Not really. They didn't take less cash to come here, did they? The contracts they got were right in line with what other UFAs got that summer.

Let's not pretend tampering doesn't happen-they Flyers knew the cost the day they traded for those guys.

worked out in that the org got and retained the two players they wanted and those players turned out to do well for the flyers. not talking about money, just talking about risking assets for rights.
- -davies-

They could have gotten both as UFAs and kept the first round pick, too. It's not like Philly is Edmonton or The Isles or some place where it's hard to attract top free agents.

They could have gotten both as UFAs and kept the first round pick, too. It's not like Philly is Edmonton or The Isles or some place where it's hard to attract top free agents.
- Jsaquella

They also could have signed with the Leafs or the Bruins or The Rangers or...

They could have gotten both as UFAs and kept the first round pick, too. It's not like Philly is Edmonton or The Isles or some place where it's hard to attract top free agents.
- Jsaquella

maybe. maybe not. just saying imo it worked out. not a risk i wish them to take again.

I hate trading assets for rights. Hate it. Waste of draft choices.

Sure it gives you an early window, but it also basically forces your hand. The player and his agent know you are interested enough to give up an asset, so basically they can say here's our price. If you don't, we're not the guys who gave up a 3rd rounder.
- Jsaquella

A player and his agent is going to say the same thing in free agency, here's our price. But I'm not crazy about the practice either.

maybe. maybe not. just saying imo it worked out. not a risk i wish them to take again.
- -davies-

I'm not big on it but it's something that's done now.

It's jumping the gun and it's a risk. You get guys like Timmonen and Hartnell who took what turned out to be market deals then you have the Bryz deal where you think you're signing the guy at market price but aren't. The bottom drops out of the goalie market, Nabokov ends up pricing himself into the KHL and the market price for goalies ends up being about 3 mil below the contract you just inked.

I wouldn't do it unless I knew for sure what I was stepping into. I'm pretty sure they walked blind into that Bryz marriage and got burned.

Not really. They didn't take less cash to come here, did they? The contracts they got were right in line with what other UFAs got that summer.

Let's not pretend tampering doesn't happen-they Flyers knew the cost the day they traded for those guys.
- Jsaquella

Getting them early gave the Flyers an advantage to start negotiations with them, without other teams involved. If they waited until Free Agency started, their odds of getting them, especially Timonen, are lessened.

I'm not big on it but it's something that's done now.

It's jumping the gun and it's a risk. You get guys like Timmonen and Hartnell who took what turned out to be market deals then you have the Bryz deal where you think you're signing the guy at market price but aren't. The bottom drops out of the goalie market, Nabokov ends up pricing himself into the KHL and the market price for goalies ends up being about 3 mil below the contract you just inked.

I wouldn't do it unless I knew for sure what I was stepping into. I'm pretty sure they walked blind into that Bryz marriage and got burned.
- mayorofangrytown

That's the thing, how much is gained by jumping the gun. Sure they got Timonen & Hartnell, but it's not as if they managed to get a discount. Teams tamper all the time. You really think that a team and an agent can hammer out a 8 year deal in two hours on July 1st, when teams often talk to their own free agents for months about a new deal?

The agent knows the market for his client long before July 1st. He knows what teams are offering. If he takes $6mm from the Flyers after they traded for his rights, he is pretty sure there's not a team out there offering $6.5mm

They also could have signed with the Leafs or the Bruins or The Rangers or...
- mayorofangrytown

They could have done that even if the Flyers hadn't traded the pick. Flyers traded for Hamhuis' rights. He ended up going to Vancouver. Fortunately Shero decided to give up a pick to kick the tires himself

That's the thing, how much is gained by jumping the gun. Sure they got Timonen & Hartnell, but it's not as if they managed to get a discount. Teams tamper all the time. You really think that a team and an agent can hammer out a 8 year deal in two hours on July 1st, when teams often talk to their own free agents for months about a new deal?

The agent knows the market for his client long before July 1st. He knows what teams are offering. If he takes $6mm from the Flyers after they traded for his rights, he is pretty sure there's not a team out there offering $6.5mm
- Jsaquella

I think it would be naive to think that tampering and talk behind the scenes doesn't go on. But I don't think that an NHL agent knows what every single team is thinking. Trading for a player's rights before Free Agency, is not about getting a discount from the player. It's about getting the player. And the odds go down on July 1, as other teams can join the discussion. That's why it's done. There is an advantage when you're a team like the Flyers to being the only team talking to the player directly.

with the cost of Dmen today, I would like to see the Flyers draft as many Dmen as possible

I don't mind the idea if you are trading a 2nd rounder at the chance to bring in a guy like Suter.

If you do so for guys not in that upper tier, I'd rather just roll the dice on FA day.

I don't mind the idea if you are trading a 2nd rounder at the chance to bring in a guy like Suter.

If you do so for guys not in that upper tier, I'd rather just roll the dice on FA day.
- flyer_nutter

My guess is, when a trade like this goes down, the team already has a deal in principle with the player or agent, and the pick is a nice way to avoid a tampering charge.

See, talking to you means I need a tinfoil hat now

My guess is, when a trade like this goes down, the team already has a deal in principle with the player or agent, and the pick is a nice way to avoid a tampering charge.

See, talking to you means I need a tinfoil hat now
- Jsaquella

That's the thing, how much is gained by jumping the gun. Sure they got Timonen & Hartnell, but it's not as if they managed to get a discount. Teams tamper all the time. You really think that a team and an agent can hammer out a 8 year deal in two hours on July 1st, when teams often talk to their own free agents for months about a new deal?

The agent knows the market for his client long before July 1st. He knows what teams are offering. If he takes $6mm from the Flyers after they traded for his rights, he is pretty sure there's not a team out there offering $6.5mm
- Jsaquella

Look, I'm not oblivious. All you're really avoiding is the phone calls. All you have to do is look at some of the free agent "losses" the Flyers have taken. Last year they thought they had Red Wing boy and their inability to sign him resulted in the contract offer and course reversal. They let Carle hang when they thought they had a deal in place and bang... Tampa Bay. Once a player gets to free agency anything can happen.

Sure, prior to July 1 no team was maybe offering Kimo 6.5. Things change as the day progresses. Maybe there are two teams who don't want to spend that much money who are both looking at Brian Rafalski, he signs with Detroit and they throw an extra 500,000 at Kimmo.

There are risks in free agency whether you trade for rights or wait for 7/1. You hate it, I don't like it but it's a chance to nail down the player you want. The Flyers did it again this season so it looks like it's not ending.