Wasn't a comparision of value(comparing money). Just straight who has played better. Comparing age+cap hit ect changes things a bit.
- burn

So what is your point then?

I don't get it - is this an argument against Bozak or for him? Considering one guy is paid over $8M and the other just over $4M I'm not sure where you're going with this...that 25 points = $4M?
- Deeps27

that's 25 more in a shortened season... over the course of 82 games that number would have likely been higher.

This year, the whole team struggled, and Staal had his lowest offensive output of his career, while the Leafs were a offensive powerhouse, and Bozak had his best season offensively.

And comparing one's best to the other's worst still only puts bozak 6 points ahead, playing with much better linemates.

I'm not saying Bozak is junk by any means- guy's a solid 2 or 3 center... but he's not at the same level as Eric Staal. One good/bad season doesn't change that.

that's 25 more in a shortened season... over the course of 82 games that number would have likely been higher.

This year, the whole team struggled, and Staal had his lowest offensive output of his career, while the Leafs were a offensive powerhouse, and Bozak had his best season offensively.

And comparing one's best to the other's worst still only puts bozak 6 points ahead, playing with much better linemates.

I'm not saying Bozak is junk by any means- guy's a solid 2 or 3 center... but he's not at the same level as Eric Staal. One good/bad season doesn't change that.
- Feeling Glucky?

I've read back a couple pages...is anyone actually saying Bozak is abetter player than Staal? I'm not following this train of thought at all.

Agreed. I'd say that if Staal had better linemates (read, Kessel and JVR and Not Tlust and Semin) He would have had more than 61pts in 79 games.
- burn

Ye man. Im strictly speaking of last year and assuming that's what you'll get out of both.

I will say this, Stall can make others around him better, Bozak does not, that's Kessel.

At this point in their careers Id say they are pretty close.

I believe Stall to be far more dynamic and has a far better chance at returning to superstar form, which bozak never has or will.
- Bigzby

Staal is like one year older than Bozak...

I've read back a couple pages...is anyone actually saying Bozak is abetter player than Staal? I'm not following this train of thought at all.
- Deeps27

Overall no, last year is being discussed. I believe.

Staal is like one year older than Bozak...
- AdamFrench

Sorry Adam. I specifically mean using last years performance, and assuming it will continue as a trend moving forward.

oh ffs.. why are you guys even debating who is better between bozak and staal

staal.. by a about hundred miles

staal gets tougher d-man smothering.. better shutdown guys and far more attention

you think boazak gets that? (frank) no.. they're too busy paying attention to kessel and JVR

you put the same D staal faces on bozak and bozak would be lucky to get 15P

So what is your point then?
- Deeps27

That bozak isn't a true #1 center. He's playing with players who put up points, but he himself isn't getting any. He doesn't set up plays to create chances for his linemates. He's just feasting off pts garnered by others. He's not good defensively. He;s not physical and gritty hard to paly against. He makes no no better. He's riding coat tails.

Flip that chart around the other way, point efficiency is what impresses me and Kessel is ave 7.2 shots per point and Crosby sits at 4.3 shots per shot! It takes Phil almost twice as many shots to accomplish the same thing as Sid!

I watched the Leafs vs. Pitt at the ACC awhile back and Phil was droppin shots from all over the place and Sid was quietly going about his business. Their stat lines showed Kessel with 7 shots - 0 Pts and Crosby with 4 shots and 3 pts. Honestly, who would you rather have on your team?

Kessel is good but that stat helps point out that he's far from being elite in the league, only elite on his own team!

Agreed. I'd say that if Staal had better linemates (read, Kessel and JVR and Not Tlust and Semin) He would have had more than 61pts in 79 games.
- burn

The problem is that people assume that when you add high scoring player X to a line with high scoring player Y, that both players production will automatically shoot into the stratosphere. In reality it would likely level out, or possibly get worse.

ex. look at Olympic teams...just because your lime mates are all of a sudden a much higher caliber...does not necessarily translate into increased stats for all involved.

Sorry Adam. I specifically mean using last years performance, and assuming it will continue as a trend moving forward.
- Bigzby

Getlaz better. Bonino, Cogleano on par
Kreijci and Bergeron better
Hodgson on par (but still younger)
Hudler on par. Monahan will be way better, maybe as early as next year
E. Staal and J.Staal better.
Toews
Duchene, O'Reilly, Mackinnon, Stastny
Johansen, Dubinsky
Seguin
Datsuyk
RNH. Gagner probably about even
Bjukstead and Barkov will better soon
Kopitar, Carter, Richards... hell Tofoli will be better soon
Kouivu and Granlund, coyle may be better soon
Deharnais and Pleckanek about equal. Galy soon to blow by
Smith and Fisher about even
Zajac and Henrique at least even
Tavares and Neilsen.
Stepan and richards. Brassard even
Spezza. Turris even
Giroux. Schenn and Coutoure are young and soon to pass
Riberio, Vermmette and Hanzel about even
Crosby Malkin
Pavelski, Thornton, Couture
BAckes
Stamkos and Johnson. Vilpula about even
Sedin Kesler
Backstom. Johansson and Grabo about even
Little. Schiefle about to blow by.
- burn

I bolded the ones not better than Bozak for you. No argument necessary.

that's 25 more in a shortened season... over the course of 82 games that number would have likely been higher.

This year, the whole team struggled, and Staal had his lowest offensive output of his career, while the Leafs were a offensive powerhouse, and Bozak had his best season offensively.

And comparing one's best to the other's worst still only puts bozak 6 points ahead, playing with much better linemates.

I'm not saying Bozak is junk by any means- guy's a solid 2 or 3 center... but he's not at the same level as Eric Staal. One good/bad season doesn't change that.
- Feeling Glucky?

Prorated over 82 games Staal gets 90, bozak gets 50. 40pts gap. And Bozak playing with JVR and Kessel, Staal Playing with Tlusty and Semin.

oh ffs.. why are you guys even debating who is better between bozak and staal

staal.. by a about hundred miles

staal gets tougher d-man smothering.. better shutdown guys and far more attention
you think boazak gets that? (frank) no.. they're too busy paying attention to kessel and JVR

you put the same D staal faces on bozak and bozak would be lucky to get 15P
- Dozzer

We are not allowed to discuss quality of opposition. Dion Phaneuf circa 2013.

So the jist of all this nonsense for start to finish is basically contemplating two things:

1. Is Phil Kessel a great player?

2. Is Eric Staal better than Tyler Bozak?


Maybe we should move onto to more challenging topics, like which hole does the square peg go in? And does the bunny really go around the tree and through the hole? Which two colors can I mix together to make green?

Solid waste of energy. Well done.

I've read back a couple pages...is anyone actually saying Bozak is abetter player than Staal? I'm not following this train of thought at all.
- Deeps27

Yes.... Adam golf guy. He's the one who brought up the comparison.

oh ffs.. why are you guys even debating who is better between bozak and staal

staal.. by a about hundred miles

staal gets tougher d-man smothering.. better shutdown guys and far more attention

you think boazak gets that? (frank) no.. they're too busy paying attention to kessel and JVR

you put the same D staal faces on bozak and bozak would be lucky to get 15P
- Dozzer

Oh C'monnnnnnn, both lines get the same defenders.

Well Todd is a Devils blogger, so yea, I'd rather see a blog talking about the Devils.
- CaptCrankypants

He needed HITS though. It's science.

That bozak isn't a true #1 center. He's playing with players who put up points, but he himself isn't getting any. He doesn't set up plays to create chances for his linemates. He's just feasting off pts garnered by others. He's not good defensively. He;s not physical and gritty hard to paly against. He makes no no better. He's riding coat tails.
- burn

Well I'm glad that argument has finally been put to bed.
Staal > Bozak straight up every day; value for contract gets a little murkier, but agree the Leafs will only be a legitimate contending team with #42 at 2C (still playing with Phil to shield him from #1 D pairings).

Ye man. Im strictly speaking of last year and assuming that's what you'll get out of both.

I will say this, Stall can make others around him better, Bozak does not, that's Kessel.
- Bigzby

This is my point.

So the jist of all this nonsense for start to finish is basically contemplating two things:

1. Is Phil Kessel a great player?

2. Is Eric Staal better than Tyler Bozak?


Maybe we should move onto to more challenging topics, like which hole does the square peg go in? And does the bunny really go around the tree and through the hole? Which two colors can I mix together to make green?

Solid waste of energy. Well done.
- njdevils350

Sorry to disrupt your delicate sensibilities. I'm sure the Devils blogger is enjoying the traffic though...

Oh C'monnnnnnn, both lines get the same defenders.
- Bigzby

and you think that bozak gets the same attention as staal?

staal gets the same attention as kessel
semin gets the same attention as JVR
tlusty gets the same attention as bozak

just because bozak plays on the top line doesnt mean he gets defended like staal does.... if you guys think that you are majorly over-simplifying

Sorry to disrupt your delicate sensibilities. I'm sure the Devils blogger is enjoying the traffic though...
- Deeps27

Write a blog for thousands or write a blog for 12.

Tough choice.

Flip that chart around the other way, point efficiency is what impresses me and Kessel is ave 7.2 shots per point and Crosby sits at 4.3 shots per shot! It takes Phil almost twice as many shots to accomplish the same thing as Sid!

I watched the Leafs vs. Pitt at the ACC awhile back and Phil was droppin shots from all over the place and Sid was quietly going about his business. Their stat lines showed Kessel with 7 shots - 0 Pts and Crosby with 4 shots and 3 pts. Honestly, who would you rather have on your team?

Kessel is good but that stat helps point out that he's far from being elite in the league, only elite on his own team!
- Cabber23

I average 8 shots per Leafs game. Just to numb the pain.