I was wondering if anyone knew if there are any restrictions on how much or how many years someone can use in a trade of a contract? Ie. say we trade Vinny but we have to keep part of the contract. Can we trade him and per say keep his cap hit fully for like 2 years but not have to have any cap hit last 2 years. Or maybe keep 1 mil cap hit next year 2 mil cap hit the year after 3 mil the 3rd year?
- Sms401

No idea, but you cant trade someone and keep their full cap hit for a year. Might as well keep them if you're going to do that.

Teams can retain a percentage of a contract’s remaining cap hit, salary and bonuses in trades. The following basic stipulations apply:

No more than 50 per cent of the salary/cap hit can be retained
The retained percentage must be the same for both salary and cap hit
The retained percentage cannot be altered from year to year
Salary/cap hit cannot be retained on more than three contracts per team in one season
The aggregate cap hits retained cannot exceed 15 per cent of the upper limit
A contract can be traded only twice where salary/cap hit is retained

In the event salary is retained a second time on the same contract, the percentage of salary/cap hit retained is applied to the full salary/cap hit and cannot alter the terms of the first retained salary transaction. Example: Devan Dubnyk was traded from Edmonton to Nashville on Jan. 15, 2014. Dubnyk's cap hit was $3.5M and the Oilers retained 50 per cent of it ($1.75M). Later that season, Nashville dealt Dubnyk to Montreal on March 5, 2014, retaining 25 percent of Dubnyk's contract. The percentage applied to Dubnyk's full cap hit of $3.5M, meaning the Oilers continued to retain 50 percent of it ($1.75M) while the Predators picked up 25 percent of it ($875K) and the Canadiens — if Dubnyk had been on their roster — handled the remaining 25 percent ($875K).

Regardless of whether a player with retained salary is on the acquiring team's NHL roster or loaned elsewhere (ie. the minor leagues), he continues to count against the cap of team(s) retaining his salary/cap hit. This stipulation prevents teams from circumventing the "Wade Redden Rule" for buried contracts, where without it, a team could halve a player's cap hit and potentially eliminate any cap cost while the player is "buried" in the minors. Example: Using the Dubnyk case above, the Canadiens assigned him to their AHL affiliate in Hamilton immediately after acquiring him on March 5. Although he did not count against Montreal's cap, his retained portions continued to count for Nashville (25 percent) and Edmonton (50 percent).

A team cannot reacquire a player within one calendar year of a retained salary transaction unless the player's contract expires during that time. A team also cannot reacquire in a retained salary transaction a player who was on its reserve list within the past calendar year, meaning a team can't trade a player simply to reacquire him at a reduced rate.

In the event a contract involved in a retained salary transaction is bought out, the buyout obligations — salary and cap hit — are divided between the two teams at the same percentage.
- MJL

2 things that really stick out as way to circumvent the cap. 1 is if I'm reading it correctly you can exceed the cap by 15 % if you have retained salary from trade and 2 in theory couldn't a team make a trade with 2 teams with 2 teams retaining % of the salary and cap and the 3 rd team paying very little salary or cap? So basically a 3 way trade with salary and cap as part of the trade even if not officially part of the trade. Hope that's clear and not to confusing to follow

No idea, but you cant trade someone and keep their full cap hit for a year. Might as well keep them if you're going to do that.
- hereticpride

Not true. Mjl answered my ? But was thinking I strongly think trades and trades involving cap retention is the future. Remember Burke talking about it for years. Many gm are saying trades very likely due to teams locking up players to long term deals anyways my thought was for example say we had a taking for Vinny but they were at cap limit. They say to Philly retain all his cap this year and we'll pick it up after next year for the rest of contract. But can't do that due to only being able to retain 50% it really opens up what can be done with trades if you think about it. I believe once teams fully start using these methods it's going to be a huge tool in the way business is done. Makes perfect sense if you think about it. Buying debt. Nhl is now officially more a business than ever. Maybe buffet gets hired as a gm someday

2 things that really stick out as way to circumvent the cap. 1 is if I'm reading it correctly you can exceed the cap by 15 % if you have retained salary from trade and 2 in theory couldn't a team make a trade with 2 teams with 2 teams retaining % of the salary and cap and the 3 rd team paying very little salary or cap? So basically a 3 way trade with salary and cap as part of the trade even if not officially part of the trade. Hope that's clear and not to confusing to follow
- Sms401

You're not reading it correctly, lol.

- PhillySportsGuy

http://boards.straightdop...e/index.php/t-436687.html

That's what all the ugly people say!
- MJL

id certainly never champion myself as a master of looks. im not like rocky dennis looking, but still, just your average guy.

but still. (frank) those people.

Tom (frank)in Wilson
- Giroux_Is_God

just reading his name rocked me into next week.

You're not reading it correctly, lol.
- Tomahawk

I'm not? Here's an example. Not that these teams or player would happen it's just an example. Say l.a. Wants Vinny but they're at the almost at the cap limit and can't take 50% of his cap but can take say 15%. So we trade Vinny to buffalo with our 7th round pick in draft and we retain 50% of cap. Buffalo turns around and trades Vinny to la for 7th round pick and retains 35% of his cap. La now would have the player they want and only be responsible for the last 15% of his cap that they could fit under the cap limit. They had to give up a 7th round pick for buffalo to retain portion of cap. Philly got rid of player and saved 50% of his cap space but had to give buffalo a 7th round pick. Buffalo basically gets 27th round picks to be the middle guy and retain some cap. I know it's a little off on the pick/compensation but I think that makes it clear. Plus if a team was trying to get to cap floor that could be a way to do it by being the middle guy and getting compensated. Maybe philly in this example would have to trade Vinny and like a 4th to buffalo for a 7th from buffalo

I'm not? Here's an example. Not that these teams or player would happen it's just an example. Say l.a. Wants Vinny but they're at the almost at the cap limit and can't take 50% of his cap but can take say 15%. So we trade Vinny to buffalo with our 7th round pick in draft and we retain 50% of cap. Buffalo turns around and trades Vinny to la for 7th round pick and retains 35% of his cap. La now would have the player they want and only be responsible for the last 15% of his cap that they could fit under the cap limit. They had to give up a 7th round pick for buffalo to retain portion of cap. Philly got rid of player and saved 50% of his cap space but had to give buffalo a 7th round pick. Buffalo basically gets 27th round picks to be the middle guy and retain some cap. I know it's a little off on the pick/compensation but I think that makes it clear. Plus if a team was trying to get to cap floor that could be a way to do it by being the middle guy and getting compensated. Maybe philly in this example would have to trade Vinny and like a 4th to buffalo for a 7th from buffalo
- Sms401

mjl does this sound feasible?

mjl does this sound feasible?

- Sms401

It's legal, Devan Dubnyk was traded twice with salary retained in both deals.


From capgeek


HOW DO RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS WORK?
Teams can retain a percentage of a contract’s remaining cap hit, salary and bonuses in trades. The following basic stipulations apply:
No more than 50 per cent of the salary/cap hit can be retained
The retained percentage must be the same for both salary and cap hit
The retained percentage cannot be altered from year to year
Salary/cap hit cannot be retained on more than three contracts per team in one season

The aggregate cap hits retained cannot exceed 15 per cent of the upper limit
A contract can be traded only twice where salary/cap hit is retained
In the event salary is retained a second time on the same contract, the percentage of salary/cap hit retained is applied to the full salary/cap hit and cannot alter the terms of the first retained salary transaction. Example: Devan Dubnyk was traded from Edmonton to Nashville on Jan. 15, 2014. Dubnyk's cap hit was $3.5M and the Oilers retained 50 per cent of it ($1.75M). Later that season, Nashville dealt Dubnyk to Montreal on March 5, 2014, retaining 25 percent of Dubnyk's contract. The percentage applied to Dubnyk's full cap hit of $3.5M, meaning the Oilers continued to retain 50 percent of it ($1.75M) while the Predators picked up 25 percent of it ($875K) and the Canadiens — if Dubnyk had been on their roster — handled the remaining 25 percent ($875K).

Regardless of whether a player with retained salary is on the acquiring team's NHL roster or loaned elsewhere (ie. the minor leagues), he continues to count against the cap of team(s) retaining his salary/cap hit. This stipulation prevents teams from circumventing the "Wade Redden Rule" for buried contracts, where without it, a team could halve a player's cap hit and potentially eliminate any cap cost while the player is "buried" in the minors. Example: Using the Dubnyk case above, the Canadiens assigned him to their AHL affiliate in Hamilton immediately after acquiring him on March 5. Although he did not count against Montreal's cap, his retained portions continued to count for Nashville (25 percent) and Edmonton (50 percent).
A team cannot reacquire a player within one calendar year of a retained salary transaction unless the player's contract expires during that time. A team also cannot reacquire in a retained salary transaction a player who was on its reserve list within the past calendar year, meaning a team can't trade a player simply to reacquire him at a reduced rate.

In the event a contract involved in a retained salary transaction is bought out, the buyout obligations — salary and cap hit — are divided between the two teams at the same percentage.

It's legal, Devan Dubnyk was traded twice with salary retained in both deals.


From capgeek


HOW DO RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS WORK?
Teams can retain a percentage of a contract’s remaining cap hit, salary and bonuses in trades. The following basic stipulations apply:
No more than 50 per cent of the salary/cap hit can be retained
The retained percentage must be the same for both salary and cap hit
The retained percentage cannot be altered from year to year
Salary/cap hit cannot be retained on more than three contracts per team in one season
The aggregate cap hits retained cannot exceed 15 per cent of the upper limit
A contract can be traded only twice where salary/cap hit is retained
In the event salary is retained a second time on the same contract, the percentage of salary/cap hit retained is applied to the full salary/cap hit and cannot alter the terms of the first retained salary transaction. Example: Devan Dubnyk was traded from Edmonton to Nashville on Jan. 15, 2014. Dubnyk's cap hit was $3.5M and the Oilers retained 50 per cent of it ($1.75M). Later that season, Nashville dealt Dubnyk to Montreal on March 5, 2014, retaining 25 percent of Dubnyk's contract. The percentage applied to Dubnyk's full cap hit of $3.5M, meaning the Oilers continued to retain 50 percent of it ($1.75M) while the Predators picked up 25 percent of it ($875K) and the Canadiens — if Dubnyk had been on their roster — handled the remaining 25 percent ($875K).
Regardless of whether a player with retained salary is on the acquiring team's NHL roster or loaned elsewhere (ie. the minor leagues), he continues to count against the cap of team(s) retaining his salary/cap hit. This stipulation prevents teams from circumventing the "Wade Redden Rule" for buried contracts, where without it, a team could halve a player's cap hit and potentially eliminate any cap cost while the player is "buried" in the minors. Example: Using the Dubnyk case above, the Canadiens assigned him to their AHL affiliate in Hamilton immediately after acquiring him on March 5. Although he did not count against Montreal's cap, his retained portions continued to count for Nashville (25 percent) and Edmonton (50 percent).
A team cannot reacquire a player within one calendar year of a retained salary transaction unless the player's contract expires during that time. A team also cannot reacquire in a retained salary transaction a player who was on its reserve list within the past calendar year, meaning a team can't trade a player simply to reacquire him at a reduced rate.
In the event a contract involved in a retained salary transaction is bought out, the buyout obligations — salary and cap hit — are divided between the two teams at the same percentage.
- Jsaquella

Do you want him?

Do you want him?
- ob18

If he's cheaper than Emery, sure. He seems to be the kind of guy Reese has a lot of success in fixing

I'm not? Here's an example. Not that these teams or player would happen it's just an example. Say l.a. Wants Vinny but they're at the almost at the cap limit and can't take 50% of his cap but can take say 15%. So we trade Vinny to buffalo with our 7th round pick in draft and we retain 50% of cap. Buffalo turns around and trades Vinny to la for 7th round pick and retains 35% of his cap. La now would have the player they want and only be responsible for the last 15% of his cap that they could fit under the cap limit. They had to give up a 7th round pick for buffalo to retain portion of cap. Philly got rid of player and saved 50% of his cap space but had to give buffalo a 7th round pick. Buffalo basically gets 27th round picks to be the middle guy and retain some cap. I know it's a little off on the pick/compensation but I think that makes it clear. Plus if a team was trying to get to cap floor that could be a way to do it by being the middle guy and getting compensated. Maybe philly in this example would have to trade Vinny and like a 4th to buffalo for a 7th from buffalo
- Sms401

The part you read wrong was RST would allow you to exceed the cap-limit by 15%.


Breaking down your scenario... Buffalo would be getting 2 7-round picks to:
- tie up one of their 3 allowable RST slots for the next 4-years,
- pay Vinny $5.7M in real salary over 4-years ($16.5 x 35%),
- plus deal with $2.25M in dead cap space over 4-years


Sounds like a real win for them...

The part you read wrong was RST would allow you to exceed the cap-limit by 15%.


Breaking down your scenario... Buffalo would be getting 2 7-round picks to:
- tie up one of their 3 allowable RST slots for the next 4-years,
- pay Vinny $5.7M in real salary over 4-years,
- plus deal with $2.25M in dead cap space over 4-years


Sounds like a real win for them...
- Tomahawk

but vinny scored 20 goals last year.

If he's cheaper than Emery, sure. He seems to be the kind of guy Reese has a lot of success in fixing
- Jsaquella

And who would you have a other options?

but vinny scored 20 goals last year.
- stayinthefnnet

But is he a real power forward like Tom Mother(frank)in' Wilson

And who would you have a other options?
- ob18

Emery, Greiss, Montoya, MacElhinny, Clemmenson, Stalock

Emery, Greiss, Montoya, McIlHenney, Clemmenson
- Jsaquella

Greiss would top my list if the deal is right

Greiss would top my list if the deal is right
- ob18

Carter Hutton is interesting, too

2 things that really stick out as way to circumvent the cap. 1 is if I'm reading it correctly you can exceed the cap by 15 % if you have retained salary from trade and 2 in theory couldn't a team make a trade with 2 teams with 2 teams retaining % of the salary and cap and the 3 rd team paying very little salary or cap? So basically a 3 way trade with salary and cap as part of the trade even if not officially part of the trade. Hope that's clear and not to confusing to follow
- Sms401

You have read it incorrectly.

Emery, Greiss, Montoya, MacElhinny, Clemmenson, Stalock
- Jsaquella

Drew MacIntyre looked pretty good this year, too. Justin Peters is decent. They and Stalock would probably be near league minimum and put up Emery stats (or better).

Iiro Tarkki is another guy I'd consider... KHL UFA, spent time in the Ducks org.

The part you read wrong was RST would allow you to exceed the cap-limit by 15%.


Breaking down your scenario... Buffalo would be getting 2 7-round picks to:
- tie up one of their 3 allowable RST slots for the next 4-years,
- pay Vinny $5.7M in real salary over 4-years ($16.5 x 35%),
- plus deal with $2.25M in dead cap space over 4-years


Sounds like a real win for them...
- Tomahawk

Yeah I gotcha on the 15% upper limit part. I see my mistake there. And that example I know the pick/ compensation is off but in theory a team could easily make the trades and basically be a middle man and get picks for retaining a players cap hit. Maybe wouldn't want to do it for long years but if your not a cap spending team you could in theory buy even say a 2nd or 3rd round pick for retaining a couple mil in cap for like 2 years. Just a thought for a tool to help a team rebuild faster thru draft or move unwanted players and to get players when you're up against the cap. The bottom line is teams can really get creative now and I think they will. We could be looking at a teams cap structure that's filled many years in advantage with unknowns and picks all over the place

But is he a real power forward like Tom Mother(frank)in' Wilson
- Jsaquella

hoorah

Drew MacIntyre looked pretty good this year, too. Justin Peters is decent, too. They and Stalock would probably be near league minimum and put up Emery stats (or better).

Iiro Tarkki is another guy I'd consider... KHL UFA, spent time in the Ducks org.
- Tomahawk

Yeah, MacIntyre did look good. I just did a Q&D look at UFA

Dobber ‏@DobberHockey 3m

Finnish League goal-scoring leader Olli Palola is apparently joining the NHL next season, per https://twitter.com/JPMik...status/472367679324823553 … (s/t @MiikaArponen )


Bill - any thoughts on this kid?