The blue-line, and state of the back and from a development point of view is probably as ugly as the cum stain at the back of my Mazda from when I was 17.
- flyer_nutter

The Flyers have not done a good job drafting and developing defenseman overall. No doubt about that.

well its one of the highest paid defenses in the league, but its not one of the top performing ones. I think what hes trying to say is that its not enough bang for the buck for what these guys are getting paid
- PhillaBully

What a boring and politically correct way of saying that.

That's what happens when you lose your top defenseman to a career ending injury. You have to replace him in bits and pieces. It's also what happens when you don't draft and develop defenseman well. Everyone of the Flyers defenseman are solid players. Just not the right mix.
- MJL

I think they individually are decent guys. I like Grossmann, and a few others. Heart is there, I will not doubt that about that back end.

Unfortunately you are playing them, and paying them to be something they simply are not because its the best you could find outside of your farm system.

What a boring and politically correct way of saying that.
- flyer_nutter

well theres always option 2

I think they individually are decent guys. I like Grossmann, and a few others. Heart is there, I will not doubt that about that back end.

Unfortunately you are playing them, and paying them to be something they simply are not because its the best you could find outside of your farm system.
- flyer_nutter

I disagree that they are paying them to be something they are not. They're all signed to market value deals. Even players you draft and develop will reach that status at some point. The hope is that you can get some low money years and some contributions from drafted players, before they get there. That is what the Flyers have been missing.

I think they individually are decent guys. I like Grossmann, and a few others. Heart is there, I will not doubt that about that back end.

Unfortunately you are playing them, and paying them to be something they simply are not because its the best you could find outside of your farm system.
- flyer_nutter

exactly. grossmann is decent and respectable at what he does. but there is no need to have him and luke schenn.

streit has some offensive pop, but he strikes me as more of a point guy with a cannon then a guy who is going to be able to lead the rush.

well its one of the highest paid defenses in the league, but its not one of the top performing ones. I think what hes trying to say is that its not enough bang for the buck for what these guys are getting paid
- PhillaBully

The big issue there is it is very piece meal, because it's hard to replace a Pronger. The trouble is when you exacerbate it by overpaying(and overpaying to acquire) guys who are not the best fit for what you need.

Even after adding MacDonald, the defense is slow, lacks puck moving ability and hockey sense.

That's what happens when you lose your top defenseman to a career ending injury. You have to replace him in bits and pieces. It's also what happens when you don't draft and develop defenseman well. Everyone of the Flyers defenseman are solid players. Just not the right mix.
- MJL

i dont disagree with you at all. I just hope we can call hextall, hexsteal when the season starts.

exactly. grossmann is decent and respectable at what he does. but there is no need to have him and luke schenn.

streit has some offensive pop, but he strikes me as more of a point guy with a cannon then a guy who is going to be able to lead the rush.
- stayinthefnnet

hey you think schenn schenn + gets you myers? I think if myers gets a change of scenery a la Mason he can really explode.

I disagree that they are paying them to be something they are not. They're all signed to market value deals. Even players you draft and develop will reach that status at some point. The hope is that you can get some low money years and some contributions from drafted players, before they get there. That is what the Flyers have been missing.
- MJL

Fair enough, and I'm not looking for a Richard waving match so I get what you are saying.

I think they are a hard working group, but they lack talent more than anything. You can yell and scream at Schenn, Grossmann, Timonen, MacDonald and Streit all you want but you aren't going to get them to do the things that the more talented d-men in the league can do. Big one of those is being able to skate the damn puck out and pinch my hairy ass, make a move to get around a guy.

The big issue there is it is very piece meal, because it's hard to replace a Pronger. The trouble is when you exacerbate it by overpaying(and overpaying to acquire) guys who are not the best fit for what you need.

Even after adding MacDonald, the defense is slow, lacks puck moving ability and hockey sense.
- Jsaquella

Thats my gripe with homer...The wrong pieces for way too much money and time.

hey you think schenn schenn + gets you myers? I think if myers gets a change of scenery a la Mason he can really explode.
- PhillaBully

I think the new management in Buffalo will help him. He played very well after Nolan came in as coach

I disagree that they are paying them to be something they are not. They're all signed to market value deals. Even players you draft and develop will reach that status at some point. The hope is that you can get some low money years and some contributions from drafted players, before they get there. That is what the Flyers have been missing.
- MJL

timonen at 6 this past year was very high for what he provided this year. he finally has fallen off with decline. he wont get 6 again this year.

luke schenn's deal is meh to me. some of that money is still being given on potential. which is fine, but if we were to take him as simply exactly wht he is right now for good then i would think he isnt worth his deal. but its not earthshattering.

streit isnt a great dealto me, but again, its hard to say its exactly that much off of market value. he just strikes me as someone who is routinely overpaid due to point production. but yet again, that is a fairly important aspect, especially once timonen leaves, he will be a good asset on the top PP.

amac, i would like to think he is capable of taking that next step as a player. ive seen flashes. but now, he is going to be off an awful team and expected to step into big minutes. i think he can handle it. he cant be that number one, but he can have a big impact.

coburn, ive said enough about him on here. his deal is below market value.

Thats my gripe with homer...The wrong pieces for way too much money and time.
- PhillaBully

All just in a (frank)ing way to try and stay competitive. Wooo they got kicked out first round and snuck into the playoffs.

Who gives a (frank).

Good day and good hockey hooligans. Hope at least the Mazda cum stain reference added some flavour. Rock on

Fair enough, and I'm not looking for a Richard waving match so I get what you are saying.

I think they are a hard working group, but they lack talent more than anything. You can yell and scream at Schenn, Grossmann, Timonen, MacDonald and Streit all you want but you aren't going to get them to do the things that the more talented d-men in the league can do. Big one of those is being able to skate the damn puck out and pinch my hairy ass, make a move to get around a guy.
- flyer_nutter

They need a better mix, and they lack the top level guy. And that has a trickle down effect on the defenseman. For example, MacDonald playing on the 2nd pair, getting some PK time, and 2nd unit PP time against similar competition, and he's a good player. A solid top 4, all around defenseman. Andrew MacDonald playing 23 minutes a night, against top lines, game in and game out. Likely to become a whipping boy for the fans.

Thats my gripe with homer...The wrong pieces for way too much money and time.
- PhillaBully

I think, overall, he did a good job. Pronger getting hurt was a huge blow. After that season, perhaps a rebuild in earnest should have started. I'm sure pressure from Snider prevented that, and I hope Hextall gets to work without the old man meddling or making public pronouncements

Fair enough, and I'm not looking for a Richard waving match so I get what you are saying.

I think they are a hard working group, but they lack talent more than anything. You can yell and scream at Schenn, Grossmann, Timonen, MacDonald and Streit all you want but you aren't going to get them to do the things that the more talented d-men in the league can do. Big one of those is being able to skate the damn puck out and pinch my hairy ass, make a move to get around a guy.
- flyer_nutter

i agree with this to an extent. i dont see that element on the flyers, and thats the problem. but i dont think its a complete lack of talent. they have talent at other things. but asking a guy like grossmann to skate around someone would be like asking a guy like tobias enstrom to clear milan lucic out of the crease. the flyers problem is they just dont have the right mix. guys that can do it all are nearly impossible to come by. if youre not going to have guys that encompass all of the elements, then you need to do it by committee. but when you have everyone bringing the same toolbox to the job site, your spectrum of what you can do is limited.

i agree with this to an extent. i dont see that element on the flyers, and thats the problem. but i dont think its a complete lack of talent. they have talent at other things. but asking a guy like grossmann to skate around someone would be like asking a guy like tobias enstrom to clear milan lucic out of the crease. the flyers problem is they just dont have the right mix. guys that can do it all are nearly impossible to come by. if youre not going to have guys that encompass all of the elements, then you need to do it by committee. but when you have everyone bringing the same toolbox to the job site, your spectrum of what you can do is limited.
- stayinthefnnet

This is why I'm open to a guy like Byfuglien, despite his warts. Can't trade the farm to get him, and he's not the only option, but he can do things that nobody else on the roster can approach doing

I think, overall, he did a good job. Pronger getting hurt was a huge blow. After that season, perhaps a rebuild in earnest should have started. I'm sure pressure from Snider prevented that, and I hope Hextall gets to work without the old man meddling or making public pronouncements
- Jsaquella

What do you think about trying to acquire Myers? Do you think Schenn Schenn + gets him or is that a overpayment?

i agree with this to an extent. i dont see that element on the flyers, and thats the problem. but i dont think its a complete lack of talent. they have talent at other things. but asking a guy like grossmann to skate around someone would be like asking a guy like tobias enstrom to clear milan lucic out of the crease. the flyers problem is they just dont have the right mix. guys that can do it all are nearly impossible to come by. if youre not going to have guys that encompass all of the elements, then you need to do it by committee. but when you have everyone bringing the same toolbox to the job site, your spectrum of what you can do is limited.
- stayinthefnnet

Just need to tweak the mix in the toolbox at least. And the toolbox is missing a hammer. What's a toolbox without a hammer?

On a different note, I think the Phils nailed it bringing in Stairs and Moyer. I think they've done a great job.

Earlier in the year they were a little bit awkward and quiet- Moyer especially- but you have to expect that as both of them are rookie commentators.

Really enjoyable to listen to

Besides, anything's better than that (frank)ing clown Wheeler

I think, overall, he did a good job. Pronger getting hurt was a huge blow. After that season, perhaps a rebuild in earnest should have started. I'm sure pressure from Snider prevented that, and I hope Hextall gets to work without the old man meddling or making public pronouncements
- Jsaquella

Lol things would look brighter if they picked Maata instead of laughton. Thats all hindsight now though. I dont know what made them think Laughton > Maata.

This is why I'm open to a guy like Byfuglien, despite his warts. Can't trade the farm to get him, and he's not the only option, but he can do things that nobody else on the roster can approach doing
- Jsaquella

And he can also be undisciplined and play lousy in his own end. I don't want a bad defenseman, just because he can put up points. We already have mark Streit who is limited defensively.

Lol things would look brighter if they picked Maata instead of laughton. Thats all hindsight now though. I dont know what made them think Laughton > Matta.
- PhillaBully

I'm sure the people that knew exponentially more about the 2 players at the time had sound reasoning.

Just need to tweak the mix in the toolbox at least. And the toolbox is missing a hammer. What's a toolbox without a hammer?
- MJL

hate to clarify on my own painfully cliched analogy, but what are you considering as the hammer?

a true top guy? because in a literal interpretation, a guy like grossmann seems like the hammer to me.