Flyers have to start identifying which players are the right one's to overpay for, if they do go into trades or FA.

A guy like Giordano/Josi, would be such a player imo.

A guy like Niskanen, just because he is the golden boy of the summer is not. Don't blow your load on something just because its the best out there. Be more selective.
- flyer_nutter

i understand that. but its only because of the pens already strained cap existence that a guy like niskanen is even available to reach free agency. guys like josi will seldom sniff ufa status anymore. and hes not even a superstar. but thats just how it is now

Well, the Pronger injury had a lot more to do with their decline than anything. Unless Holmgren whacked him in the eye, the decline isn't 100% on him
- Jsaquella

Haha my hatred at this point is blind.

He ended up moving into 'John Stevens' realm.

Haha my hatred at this point is blind.

He ended up moving into 'John Stevens' realm.
- flyer_nutter

I get blind hatred

All I'm saying is that it's easier to fill those positions. You can find a 4th liner every year in free agency and at every trade deadline. I'd rather roll the dice on a guy with a higher ceiling and lower floor in the 3rd round.
- PhillySportsGuy

I look at teams like LA and Chicago. I look through the whole lineup and see a bunch of players that they drafted. And I see how important and underrated the low minute role players are on those teams. And if this kid can become one of those types, then it will be a dam good pick. If he doesn't make then it wasn't a good pick obviously. Monday morning Qb'ing the pick because a bunch of draft pundits didn't have him rated that high, doesn't mean anything at this point.

i understand that. but its only because of the pens already strained cap existence that a guy like niskanen is even available to reach free agency. guys like josi will seldom sniff ufa status anymore. and hes not even a superstar. but thats just how it is now
- stayinthefnnet

(frank) right it is.

Under Holmgren's genius guidance the Flyers waited to the very end to address the back end from within.

All the while, throwing away picks for BS, and giving out big contracts to 'the best available', when in reality.. Its more like a Toyota Corolla instead of a Mustang.

i think niskanen gets 6. stralman should get at least 3. anything under 4 is a damn good deal for someone
- stayinthefnnet

I don't see anyway in hell that Stralman signs for 3 with another team. Hey if he's willing to take 3, the Flyers better offer him 4 and call it a day. MacDonald is going to help set the market for Stralman.

Flyers have to start identifying which players are the right one's to overpay for, if they do go into trades or FA.

A guy like Giordano/Josi, would be such a player imo.

A guy like Niskanen, just because he is the golden boy of the summer is not. Don't blow your load on something just because its the best out there. Be more selective.
- flyer_nutter

Make the right move, not just make a move. But the cost for those players is apples and oranges. Niskanen would just cost Cap space. The other players would cost player assets as well.

(frank) right it is.

Under Holmgren's genius guidance the Flyers waited to the very end to address the back end from within.

All the while, throwing away picks for BS, and giving out big contracts to 'the best available', when in reality.. Its more like a Toyota Corolla instead of a Mustang.
- flyer_nutter

If a Mustang is the best available, take the Corolla

I don't see anyway in hell that Stralman signs for 3 with another team. Hey if he's willing to take 3, the Flyers better offer him 4 and call it a day. MacDonald is going to help set the market for Stralman.
- MJL

Problem with guys like MacDonald, LeCavalier or Streit is the contracts are set in such a way that you really wont be finding fair value if you look to trade.

You marry yourself to those players, and have no way of backing out unless you take another BS contract back on, or give them away for peanuts.

Those kind of deals need to end.

If a Mustang is the best available, take the Corolla
- Jsaquella

The horse not the car city boy.

A guy like Giordano/Josi, would be such a player imo.
- flyer_nutter

I don't want to overpay... I want to target guys like Gio and Josi before their values are sky-high.

Josi used to be just one of many in the Preds' stable of blueline prospects... Gio was once just an undrafted spare part that bounced to the KHL over a contract dispute. There was probably a point in both their early careers when an enterprising GM could have poached either of them for a song.

That's the kind of gamble I want to see Hexy make.

In my time away, I've read a lot of suggestions on how this team should approach the future, especially with the defense. I totally agree that the Flyers should focus on drafting and player development, as the primary method of team building going forward. I don't disagree with that at all. But that's not to say that they should ignore other methods such as trades and Free agency. They should use all the tools and assets available to them. Just do it smartly.

Even in the recent thread I see suggestions such as trade Grossmann, re-sign Timonen for cheaper money, and bring up one of the kids. Reasonable thoughts. But really, it doesn't help all that much. And it's a short term solution, that just treads water.

Here is the reality as I see it for this team, and what they're faced with. Let's look at the 4 teams that are still playing, and the top defenseman on those teams for reference at what we're looking at. And to add some context.

Brent Seabrooke was drafted in 2003, played 2 more Junior Seasons, before making it to the NHL

Duncan Keith was drafted in the 2nd round in 2002. Played 2 more Junior Seasons, and then played 2 AHL Seasons before making it to the NHL.

Drew Doughty was drafted 2nd overall in 2008. And stepped right into the NHL the following Season

Slava Voynov was drafted in the 2nd round in 2008. Played another Junior level Season. And then spent 3 Seasons in the AHL before making it to the NHL.

P.K. Subban was drafted in the 2nd round in 2007. Played 2 more Junior Seasons, and a Season in the AHL before making it to the NHL.

So looking at that, what is the realistic time frame for any of the Flyers top defense prospects to make it to the NHL? Now keep in mind this is to just make the team. Then how more seasons of growing pains in the NHL, to make to where they can play significant minutes against top competition, and form the backbone of the Flyers defense?
Maybe a player like Hagg, or Alt, can step in and play a limited sheltered role at some point next Season. But we certainly can't count on them to solve the Flyers issues at defense. They can contribute possibly to some level, but not to the level of what we really need.

Realistically, we're looking at 2-5 years for one of these players, if any, to become top defenseman on this team. And realistically, closer to the latter number. Never know with players, one could advance quicker. But I don't think that's realistic. And many are preaching that the Flyers need to be patient with developing players, and give them all the time they need, and not rush them. Which I don't disagree with. But in the mean time, what's happening with the Flyers in that time span?
What's happening is prime years of players such as Giroux, Voracek, Read and Simmonds, are flushed down the toilet, if the defense isn't good enough. Players such as Coburn, Hartnell, Streit, are all getting older.

So this idea of waiting for these players to come along and save the day, is all well and good. But I think the Flyers can't sit and wait for them. They need to make a move. They can't afford not to make a move if the right move becomes available.
This is not even considering if none of them pan out. Then what, start all over?

Sorry for the long winded post, but this is how I see it.
- MJL

i would try and pry myers (Schenn, Schenn + ) out of buffalo and try to sign niskanen as my number one and 2. then Amac coburn, streit alt

The horse not the car city boy.
- flyer_nutter

There's a Toyota Corolla horse?

(frank) right it is.

Under Holmgren's genius guidance the Flyers waited to the very end to address the back end from within.

All the while, throwing away picks for BS, and giving out big contracts to 'the best available', when in reality.. Its more like a Toyota Corolla instead of a Mustang.
- flyer_nutter

When you look at the list of defenseman that Holmgren has acquired. It's a solid list. And it definitely doesn't equate to a Toyota Corolla.

Problem with guys like MacDonald, LeCavalier or Streit is the contracts are set in such a way that you really wont be finding fair value if you look to trade.

You marry yourself to those players, and have no way of backing out unless you take another BS contract back on, or give them away for peanuts.

Those kind of deals need to end.
- flyer_nutter

MacDonald and Streit are both solid signings. No reason needed to back out of them. Lecavalier may need to be moved, if he's not a fit here, but I think that can be done.

I don't want to overpay... I want to target guys like Gio and Josi before their values are sky-high.

Josi used to be just one of many in the Preds' stable of blueline prospects... Gio was once just an undrafted spare part that bounced to the KHL over a contract dispute. There was probably a point in both their early careers when an enterprising GM could have poached either of them for a song.

That's the kind of gamble I want to see Hexy make.
- Tomahawk

yeah but for every one of those guys, you have to throw out a lot of potential lines to hopefully get one. theyre name brand now because of what they became. but if you want to target them before hand, you are going to need to sift through, acquire, and use roster slots on a lot of guys that wont pan out.

I don't want to overpay... I want to target guys like Gio and Josi before their values are sky-high.

Josi used to be just one of many in the Preds' stable of blueline prospects... Gio was once just an undrafted spare part that bounced to the KHL over a contract dispute. There was probably a point in both their early careers when an enterprising GM could have poached either of them for a song.

That's the kind of gamble I want to see Hexy make.
- Tomahawk

Or.

God forbid you give a shot to those you have. Alt, Lauridsen and to a lesser degree Ghost.

Nonsense. Give me Dan Boyle.

There's a Toyota Corolla horse?
- Jsaquella

Horse vs Car.

I choose horse. Where is (frank)ing skip and spaghetti when you need him.

When you look at the list of defenseman that Holmgren has acquired. It's a solid list. And it definitely doesn't equate to a Toyota Corolla.
- MJL

well its one of the highest paid defenses in the league, but its not one of the top performing ones. I think what hes trying to say is that its not enough bang for the buck for what these guys are getting paid

yeah but for every one of those guys, you have to throw out a lot of potential lines to hopefully get one. theyre name brand now because of what they became. but if you want to target them before hand, you are going to need to sift through, acquire, and use roster slots on a lot of guys that wont pan out.
- stayinthefnnet

Most definitely.

Thankfully, they have a lot of roster slots opening up this summer... I'd be collecting blueline prospects like a fiend if I were in the chair.

yeah but for every one of those guys, you have to throw out a lot of potential lines to hopefully get one. theyre name brand now because of what they became. but if you want to target them before hand, you are going to need to sift through, acquire, and use roster slots on a lot of guys that wont pan out.
- stayinthefnnet

The Flyers do that now. They had 3 or 4 NHL deals in the ECHL this year

Or.

God forbid you give a shot to those you have. Alt, Lauridsen and to a lesser degree Ghost.

Nonsense. Give me Dan Boyle.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think anyone has advocated not giving them a shot. But what are the expectations for those players?

When you look at the list of defenseman that Holmgren has acquired. It's a solid list. And it definitely doesn't equate to a Toyota Corolla.
- MJL

The blue-line, and state of the back end from a development point of view is probably as ugly as the cum stain at the back of my Mazda from when I was 17.

Horse vs Car.

I choose horse. Where is (frank)ing skip and spaghetti when you need him.
- flyer_nutter

I choose delivery. Man lived in nature for centuries, until he realized it sucked & built cities

well its one of the highest paid defenses in the league, but its not one of the top performing ones. I think what hes trying to say is that its not enough bang for the buck for what these guys are getting paid
- PhillaBully

That's what happens when you lose your top defenseman to a career ending injury. You have to replace him in bits and pieces. It's also what happens when you don't draft and develop defenseman well. Everyone of the Flyers defenseman are solid players. Just not the right mix.