if people cant live through a proper rebuild, instead of trying to just stay 'in the hunt' at all costs, they deserve the BS that comes.
- flyer_nutter

The rebuild started after the 2010 Season. It is now 2014. And the Flyers haven't gotten back there. Now add on how many more years, waiting for the young defenseman to develop? All you have to do is read this thread every day to realize what you're saying here isn't reality. And what if none of those players work out? Then how much longer?

I think people were a little upset the Flyers took a guy who projects as a 4th line player in the 3rd round. Even the Flyers view him as a 4th line player. Thats why they compared him to Rinaldo.
- PhillySportsGuy

If a guy whose ceiling is 4th liner is your BPA in round three of a very deep draft...the bigger issue is that there were several more highly regarded players available when they made the pick.

Any player selected in the 3rd round that makes it to the NHL , in any capacity as a player, and has a decent career, is a dam good pick.
- MJL

Goulbourne has the UPSIDE of a 4th line player. There is no guarantee he makes it that far. Wouldn't you rather draft a player with more upside than that? 4th line players are fairly abundant in the late rounds and free agency.

It's like having the chance to buy a lottery ticket. One ticket has a 1/10 chance of winning but only offers a reward of $10. Another ticket has a 1/100 chance of winning but offers $10,000. Which ticket would you choose?

One month till the draft.

The worrisome thing is, if you can get a similar player for less. This past summer Ron Hainsey & Tom Gilbert sat around and took significant pay cuts and both played well for their new teams.

Teams will be tossing a lot of cash at Matt Niskanen this summer, hoping he's a top pair guy. But is it better to give him 6 years $39mm or a lesser guy like Stralman or Nikitin, who didn't get the opportunity Niskanen did for 4 years, $18mm?
- Jsaquella

strahlman impressed the hell out of me this postseason. i understand the scheme and personnel there makes it easier for defenders to look good, but i think he is a pretty underrated guy.

One month till the draft.
- Feanor

I hope to be out of my alcohol induced coma from NY or LA winning the Cup by then

The worrisome thing is, if you can get a similar player for less. This past summer Ron Hainsey & Tom Gilbert sat around and took significant pay cuts and both played well for their new teams.

Teams will be tossing a lot of cash at Matt Niskanen this summer, hoping he's a top pair guy. But is it better to give him 6 years $39mm or a lesser guy like Stralman or Nikitin, who didn't get the opportunity Niskanen did for 4 years, $18mm?
- Jsaquella

Yeah, I don't think there's a $3-4M difference between Gilbert/Stralman and Niskanen in terms of on-ice value.

Outside of the top echelon of players whom are truly special, the gap between the 20th-best player at a given position in the world and the 100th-best isn't that great... values abound if you're willing to be patient and look, even on defense.

strahlman impressed the hell out of me this postseason. i understand the scheme and personnel there makes it easier for defenders to look good, but i think he is a pretty underrated guy.
- stayinthefnnet

I'd love to have him. He does benefit a bit from the system, but he's also a guy that helps make that system work so well. Plus, he's a good skater and a righty shot

I'd love to have him. He does benefit a bit from the system, but he's also a guy that helps make that system work so well. Plus, he's a good skater and a righty shot
- Jsaquella

He'd be a good fit here

If a guy whose ceiling is 4th liner is your BPA in round three of a very deep draft...the bigger issue is that there were several more highly regarded players available when they made the pick.
- Jsaquella

Those other players may have had more upside, but also come with more risk. Sometimes taking the safer player, with later picks is a good move. It's all about perspective. As I said earlier, none of this means squat. All that matters is how the player turns out. If he makes the team, and develops into a solid role player, then it's a good pick.
It's posted all the time that the Flyers need a better 4th line. What if this kid turns out to have a solid physical game, as well as being solid defensively, skates well, and chips in some offense. And becomes a solid role player. How would that be a bad pick? Have to let it play out and see what happens. You can get depth and solid role players by drafting them.

The rebuild started after the 2010 Season. It is now 2014. And the Flyers haven't gotten back there. Now add on how many more years, waiting for the young defenseman to develop? All you have to do is read this thread every day to realize what you're saying here isn't reality. And what if none of those players work out? Then how much longer?
- MJL

That's if you assume Holmgren was committed and did a proper rebuild.

Goulbourne has the UPSIDE of a 4th line player. There is no guarantee he makes it that far. Wouldn't you rather draft a player with more upside than that? 4th line players are fairly abundant in the late rounds and free agency.

It's like having the chance to buy a lottery ticket. One ticket has a 1/10 chance of winning but only offers a reward of $10. Another ticket has a 1/100 chance of winning but offers $10,000. Which ticket would you choose?
- PhillySportsGuy

First of all, upside is not an exact science. And let's apply the same standard to all the players. The players with supposed more upside, also are not guaranteed to make it that far. What if the Flyers felt that of all the players available, he has the best chance to make it to the NHL?

As far as the analogy, the only way that works is if the price of both tickets is the same. But with one having a top prize of ten dollars, and the other a top prize of 10K, that's not likely. With the cost of the ticket equating to a 3rd round pick.

Yeah, I don't think there's a $3-4M difference between Gilbert/Stralman and Niskanen in terms of on-ice value.

Outside of the top echelon of players whom are truly special, the gap between the 20th-best player at a given position in the world and the 100th-best isn't that great... values abound if you're willing to be patient and look, even on defense.
- Tomahawk

I don't think the difference between Niskanen and Stralman on the open market is going to be 3-4M.

Those other players may have had more upside, but also come with more risk. Sometimes taking the safer player, with later picks is a good move. It's all about perspective. As I said earlier, none of this means squat. All that matters is how the player turns out. If he makes the team, and develops into a solid role player, then it's a good pick.
It's posted all the time that the Flyers need a better 4th line. What if this kid turns out to have a solid physical game, as well as being solid defensively, skates well, and chips in some offense. And becomes a solid role player. How would that be a bad pick? Have to let it play out and see what happens. You can get depth and solid role players by drafting them.
- MJL

All I'm saying is that it's easier to fill those positions. You can find a 4th liner every year in free agency and at every trade deadline. I'd rather roll the dice on a guy with a higher ceiling and lower floor in the 3rd round.

Yeah, I don't think there's a $3-4M difference between Gilbert/Stralman and Niskanen in terms of on-ice value.

Outside of the top echelon of players whom are truly special, the gap between the 20th-best player at a given position in the world and the 100th-best isn't that great... values abound if you're willing to be patient and look, even on defense.
- Tomahawk

This is where it becomes vital to weigh all factors. Do you do a "patch up" job to try and compete now and give the kids time to develop? Because going after the real need, a legit number one, all situations monster is going to either gut the roster, the system or the draft picks available.

Me, I try to tread water a bit, maybe catch lightning in a bottle and see if a deal becomes available. Hang onto the kids, most of whom haven't even been in the system for more than a handful of games, if at all.

As far as a trade goes now, the most appealing route to me would be to trade up and get a shot at Ekblad, rather than pay a Pronger-esque price for an established guy with a huge deal

Holmgren essentially took a team that (with good fortune) made the Stanley Cup Final and threw them into mediocrity.

In which they will remain until the back end substantially improves. The same back end he failed up until the need was most dire to address from within.

After Holmgren blew his load, and didn't have the poop load of cap space he had in his first true off-season.. He went downhill fast.

Good riddance. Committed to youth, and a proper rebuild my ass.

Goulbourne has the UPSIDE of a 4th line player. There is no guarantee he makes it that far. Wouldn't you rather draft a player with more upside than that? 4th line players are fairly abundant in the late rounds and free agency.

It's like having the chance to buy a lottery ticket. One ticket has a 1/10 chance of winning but only offers a reward of $10. Another ticket has a 1/100 chance of winning but offers $10,000. Which ticket would you choose?
- PhillySportsGuy

What if you have a ticket with 1/10000 chance of winning $10?

I don't think the difference between Niskanen and Stralman on the open market is going to be 3-4M.
- MJL

i think niskanen gets 6. stralman should get at least 3. anything under 4 is a damn good deal for someone

What if you have a ticket with 1/10000 chance of winning $10?
- Tomahawk

then you have zac rinaldo

All I'm saying is that it's easier to fill those positions. You can find a 4th liner every year in free agency and at every trade deadline. I'd rather roll the dice on a guy with a higher ceiling and lower floor in the 3rd round.
- PhillySportsGuy

Absolutely.

The "safer" pick was Mike Ricci. Damned solid NHLer, won a couple of Stanley Cups. The risky pick was Jaromir Jagr.


Combine that, with the likelihood that Goulbourne would have been available later in the draft and it's a choice I disagree with

then you have zac rinaldo 2
- stayinthefnnet

psshhh, ftfy, you obviously haven't been following along

i think niskanen gets 6. stralman should get at least 3. anything under 4 is a damn good deal for someone
- stayinthefnnet

Flyers have to start identifying which players are the right one's to overpay for, if they do go into trades or FA.

A guy like Giordano/Josi, would be such a player imo.

A guy like Niskanen, just because he is the golden boy of the summer is not. Don't blow your load on something just because its the best out there. Be more selective.

Holmgren essentially took a team that (with good fortune) made the Stanley Cup Final and threw them into mediocrity.

In which they will remain until the back end substantially improves. The same back end he failed up until the need was most dire to address from within.

After Holmgren blew his load, and didn't have the poop load of cap space he had in his first true off-season.. He went downhill fast.

Good riddance. Committed to youth, and a proper rebuild my ass.
- flyer_nutter

Well, the Pronger injury had a lot more to do with their decline than anything. Unless Holmgren whacked him in the eye, the decline isn't 100% on him

Holmgren essentially took a team that (with good fortune) made the Stanley Cup Final and threw them into mediocrity.

In which they will remain until the back end substantially improves. The same back end he failed up until the need was most dire to address from within.

After Holmgren blew his load, and didn't have the poop load of cap space he had in his first true off-season.. He went downhill fast.

Good riddance. Committed to youth, and a proper rebuild my ass.
- flyer_nutter

Do you also blame Holmgren for the injury to the Flyers franchise defenseman? Because that had a lot to do with the team's slide.

It was also omitted that Holmgren took a team that was last overall in the League, and built them into a Cup finalist.

i think niskanen gets 6. stralman should get at least 3. anything under 4 is a damn good deal for someone
- stayinthefnnet

Given the market, I think he could get $6.5mm or even $7mm if somebody is desperate.

Stralman shot down a reported deal for 3years around $3.5mm. I'd expect him to get $4mm