How much time does John Boruk stand in front of a mirror everyday?
- PhillySportsGuy

I imagine he and Gunner have quite a few shoving matches during the day.

Then I look for a less expensive option.

I don't think Amac is nearly as good as Carle, so I don't want to even compare the situations. I imagine thats where this is heading.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think the only area where Carle is better then Amac is in play making and assists. Otherwise they're equals in my opinion.

From being NHL-ready, whether it be top-4 of bottom pair. I'd hate to have some NHL ready guys who are stuck in the AHL because we have our top-6 locked up for the next 4 years.
- jmatchett383

You can always trade a player to make room for a younger player.

Want the real thing?

Love,

The Ottawa Senators
- MunsterMike

If it was between Corvo and Foster, and cap space wasn't an issue...yes in a heartbeat.

You can always trade a player to make room for a younger player.
- MJL

Not if he has a NMC or there is no market.

I think the only area where Carle is better then Amac is in play making and assists. Otherwise they're equals in my opinion.
- MJL

Pretty much, I would also give AMac the edge as a shot blocker

If it was between Corvo and Foster, and cap space wasn't an issue...yes in a heartbeat.
- jmatchett383

He's extremely suspect in his own zone, plus he is about to turn 37.

I think the fans would want to lynch him.

Edit: He's with the Chicago AHL team, so the Senators have nothing to do with this. My mistake.

Just who exactly comprises this near universal opinion?
- MJL

Everybody outside of the Flyers front office at the time of the pick?

He's extremely suspect in his own zone, plus he is about to turn 37.

I think the fans would want to lynch him.

Edit: He's with the Chicago AHL team, so the Senators have nothing to do with this. My mistake.
- MunsterMike

"Extremely suspect" means that he would be a premier shutdown defender compared to Foster. Foster was good until he got his leg broken and he was never the same. The Flyers got him off the scrap heap because there was no one else. And yeah, he had one great booming PP goal and not much else.

He can skate, in the sense that he can wear hockey skates and move, much like I'm sure David Ortiz could. His positioning is lacking, he's not physical at all, and his ability to move the puck is second to all. So yes, given the options, Mr. Corvo please.

In my time away, I've read a lot of suggestions on how this team should approach the future, especially with the defense. I totally agree that the Flyers should focus on drafting and player development, as the primary method of team building going forward. I don't disagree with that at all. But that's not to say that they should ignore other methods such as trades and Free agency. They should use all the tools and assets available to them. Just do it smartly.

Even in the recent thread I see suggestions such as trade Grossmann, re-sign Timonen for cheaper money, and bring up one of the kids. Reasonable thoughts. But really, it doesn't help all that much. And it's a short term solution, that just treads water.

Here is the reality as I see it for this team, and what they're faced with. Let's look at the 4 teams that are still playing, and the top defenseman on those teams for reference at what we're looking at. And to add some context.

Brent Seabrooke was drafted in 2003, played 2 more Junior Seasons, before making it to the NHL

Duncan Keith was drafted in the 2nd round in 2002. Played 2 more Junior Seasons, and then played 2 AHL Seasons before making it to the NHL.

Drew Doughty was drafted 2nd overall in 2008. And stepped right into the NHL the following Season

Slava Voynov was drafted in the 2nd round in 2008. Played another Junior level Season. And then spent 3 Seasons in the AHL before making it to the NHL.

P.K. Subban was drafted in the 2nd round in 2007. Played 2 more Junior Seasons, and a Season in the AHL before making it to the NHL.

Ryan MacDonagh as drafted in the first round in 2007. Spent 3 more seasons in College, and half a season in the AHL.

So looking at that, what is the realistic time frame for any of the Flyers top defense prospects to make it to the NHL? Now keep in mind this is to just make the team. Then how more seasons of growing pains in the NHL, to make to where they can play significant minutes against top competition, and form the backbone of the Flyers defense?
Maybe a player like Hagg, or Alt, can step in and play a limited sheltered role at some point next Season. But we certainly can't count on them to solve the Flyers issues at defense. They can contribute possibly to some level, but not to the level of what we really need.

Realistically, we're looking at 2-5 years for one of these players, if any, to become top defenseman on this team. And realistically, closer to the latter number. Never know with players, one could advance quicker. But I don't think that's realistic. And many are preaching that the Flyers need to be patient with developing players, and give them all the time they need, and not rush them. Which I don't disagree with. But in the mean time, what's happening with the Flyers in that time span?
What's happening is prime years of players such as Giroux, Voracek, Read and Simmonds, are flushed down the toilet, if the defense isn't good enough. Players such as Coburn, Hartnell, Streit, are all getting older.

So this idea of waiting for these players to come along and save the day, is all well and good. But I think the Flyers can't sit and wait for them. They need to make a move. They can't afford not to make a move if the right move becomes available.
This is not even considering if none of them pan out. Then what, start all over?

Sorry for the long winded post, but this is how I see it.

Everybody outside of the Flyers front office at the time of the pick?
- Tomahawk

It was universally questioned and no one understood why they took a player who was ranked so low with such an early pick.

But since I don't have 7000 sworn statements and newspaper clippings, I guess it's all nonsense.

Everybody outside of the Flyers front office at the time of the pick?
- Tomahawk

I doubt everybody. Here is the bottom line. If that kid makes it to the NHL in any capacity. It's a hell of a pick for the 3rd round. But time will judge that pick. And I think it's crazy to criticize it as heavily as it has been before it's even played out.

Not if he has a NMC or there is no market.
- jmatchett383

There is always a market for defenseman. And NMC can be dealt with.

"Extremely suspect" means that he would be a premier shutdown defender compared to Foster. Foster was good until he got his leg broken and he was never the same. The Flyers got him off the scrap heap because there was no one else. And yeah, he had one great booming PP goal and not much else.

He can skate, in the sense that he can wear hockey skates and move, much like I'm sure David Ortiz could. His positioning is lacking, he's not physical at all, and his ability to move the puck is second to all. So yes, given the options, Mr. Corvo please.
- jmatchett383

There is always a market for defenseman. And NMC can be dealt with.
- MJL

So why didn't they move Meszaros to start last season?

Everybody outside of the Flyers front office at the time of the pick?
- Tomahawk

NHL's Central Scouting had Goulbourne at 151...among North American skaters.

The ISS (International Scouting Service) was more kind, they had him at 171 overall and actually had a write up of him in their draft guide (which CSB and other draft services didn't bother doing).

He was selected 100 spots ahead-or three rounds-of where ISS had him.

The most telling thing may be that Goulbourne himself wasn't expecting he'd be drafted until the 5th or 6th round at the earliest

In my time away, I've read a lot of suggestions on how this team should approach the future, especially with the defense. I totally agree that the Flyers should focus on drafting and player development, as the primary method of team building going forward. I don't disagree with that at all. But that's not to say that they should ignore other methods such as trades and Free agency. They should use all the tools and assets available to them. Just do it smartly.

Even in the recent thread I see suggestions such trade Grossmann, re-sign Timonen for cheaper money, and bring up one of the kids. Reasonable thoughts. But really, it doesn't help all that much. And it's a short term solution, that just treads water.

Here is the reality as I see it for this team, and what they're faced with. Let's look at the 4 teams that are still playing, and the top defenseman on those teams for reference at what we're looking at. And to add some context.

Brent Seabrooke was drafted in 2003, played 2 more Junior Seasons, before making it to the NHL

Duncan Keith was drafted in the 2nd round in 2002. Played 2 more Junior Seasons, and then played 2 AHL Seasons before making it to the NHL.

Drew Doughty was drafted 2nd overall in 2008. And stepped right into the NHL the following Season

Slava Voynov was drafted in the 2nd round in 2008. Played another Junior level Season. And then spent 3 Seasons in the AHL before making it to the NHL.

P.K. Subban was drafted in the 2nd round in 2007. Played 2 more Junior Seasons, and a Season in the AHL before making it to the NHL.

So looking at that, what is the realistic time frame for any of the Flyers top defense prospects to make it to the NHL? Now keep in mind this is to just make the team. Then how more seasons of growing pains in the NHL, to make to where they can play significant minutes against top competition, and form the backbone of the Flyers defense?
Maybe a player like Hagg, or Alt, can step in and play a limited sheltered role at some point next Season. But we certainly can't count on them to solve the Flyers issues at defense. They can contribute possibly to some level, but not to the level of what we really need.

Realistically, we're looking at 2-5 years for one of these players, if any, to become top defenseman on this team. And realistically, closer to the latter number. Never know with players, one could advance quicker. But I don't think that's realistic. And many are preaching that the Flyers need to be patient with developing players, and give them all the time they need, and not rush them. Which I don't disagree with. But in the mean time, what's happening with the Flyers in that time span?
What's happening is prime years of players such as Giroux, Voracek, Read and Simmonds, are flushed down the toilet, if the defense isn't good enough. Players such as Coburn, Hartnell, Streit, are all getting older.

So this idea of waiting for these players to come along and save the day, is all well and good. But I think the Flyers can't sit and wait for them. They need to make a move. They can't afford not to make a move if the right move becomes available.
This is not even considering if none of them pan out. Then what, start all over?

Sorry for the long winded post, but this is how I see it.
- MJL

You are pretty much right, but that leads to this point and question.

It seems that no one is willing to part with quality dmen unless you are willing to overpay. With that being said, how much are you willing to give up and for whom?

For example

If you want a guy like Byfuglien, are you willing to make Couturier part of the deal, because that's the guy Winnipeg will want. Same if you want to talk to Nashville about Josi. They are going to want Couturier, a 1st and possibly a good D prospect as well.

Do you want Yandle, the Yotes will ask for B Schenn and a first minimum

Do you want Subban, Montreal will likely want Couturier, Coburn and multiple picks and prospects.

Its very frustrating, but it seems that the only way to QUICKLY improve the Flyers D is to overpay in a deal or overpay for a UFA, and I don't like either.

So why didn't they move Meszaros to start last season?
- jmatchett383

Question marks concerning his injuries.

NHL's Central Scouting had Goulbourne at 151...among North American skaters.

The ISS (International Scouting Service) was more kind, they had him at 171 overall and actually had a write up of him in their draft guide (which CSB and other draft services didn't bother doing).

He was selected 100 spots ahead-or three rounds-of where ISS had him.

The most telling thing may be that Goulbourne himself wasn't expecting he'd be drafted until the 5th or 6th round at the earliest
- Jsaquella

What would happen if every year Central Scouting's rankings, and all the other draft pundits rankings were reviewed in hindsight? Why don't teams just save a bunch of money and time, and just draft using Central Scouting rankings or read the periodicals and go by their rankings. Instead of scouting players themselves?

Bottom line is none of that means spit. Only thing that matters is how it turns out in the long run.

NHL's Central Scouting had Goulbourne at 151...among North American skaters.

The ISS (International Scouting Service) was more kind, they had him at 171 overall and actually had a write up of him in their draft guide (which CSB and other draft services didn't bother doing).

He was selected 100 spots ahead-or three rounds-of where ISS had him.

The most telling thing may be that Goulbourne himself wasn't expecting he'd be drafted until the 5th or 6th round at the earliest
- Jsaquella

His own mother was probably shocked he went that high.

Not to mention he was a 19-yo... all 30 teams had 7 cracks at him the previous summer and passed.

Question marks concerning his injuries.
- MJL

"There is always a market for defenseman."

"There is always a market for defenseman."
- jmatchett383

Yes, there is.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rinaldo's Role
- bmeltzer

He can go

Stepan is skating and waiting medical clearance to play. With a 3-1 series lead, does anyone think it would be smart to sit him until the Finals, or a game 7 if it comes to that?

He can go
- ob18

Welcome young man. How goes it?